Black Box

Jon Kostal · Post by **Jon Kostal** » 14 Oct 2004 5:57 pm

Ignorance is bliss.....sometimes. Sorry for a seemingly dumb question but what is this black box you all are talking about?

Jon

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 14 Oct 2004 6:35 pm

Enjoy

http://home.earthlink.net/~bradsarno/blackbox.html

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George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 14 Oct 2004 6:47 pm

When I got mine it took a little time to get used to it. Now it's standard equipment when ever I use my NV400 or NV 112.

A fine product.

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

[This message was edited by George Mc Lellan on 15 October 2004 at 08:59 AM.]

Jon Kostal · Post by **Jon Kostal** » 15 Oct 2004 6:51 am

Thanks!

Jon

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 15 Oct 2004 7:30 am

Jon
I'm among the biggest steel guitar Luddites in Forumland. I play a 1964 steel with no effects except reverb and up until a couple of years ago I used a kerosene amplifier.

I got one of Brad's SGBB's after this year's ISGC and I have to tell you that the box is now part of my regular onstage setup. And the results I get in a studio setting are simply great and much more dramatic than the onstage improvement. Increased high end clarity without harshness, and a mid-range tone that is somehow "better." More distinction between notes in the full chords. And basically, a nice "tube warmth" that is frequently lacking in steel amps, especially non-modded Peaveys.

I'm really not a tone maven, in that I have a hard time describing precisely what I'm hearing. However I think enough of Brad and his Box to give it my personal recommendation.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 15 Oct 2004 11:47 am

Luddites rule!
Personally, I prefer the tone of a coal powered amp...

But seriously, Herb, are you using the Black Box prior to a solid state amp or a tube amp?

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Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 16 Oct 2004 6:31 am

Well the Black Box is very Luddite-friendly. No knobs or switches, just plug it in and hook it up between the guitar and volume pedal. No fiddling around.

Brad
www.steelguitarblackbox.com

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 17 Oct 2004 3:13 pm

Brad: I might be able to operate that.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 17 Oct 2004 4:47 pm

Herb, I have one of the newer LPG fired Steel amps and the Black Box has lifted the whole rig into the Nuclear age !!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 17 Oct 2004 5:16 pm

I play through solid state amps, either Webb or Evans.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 18 Oct 2004 1:28 pm

I was thinking of moving up to coal, but I'm still happy with my whale-oil amp--if it's not broke, why fix it?

-Travis

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 19 Oct 2004 1:41 pm

Brad, I'm in the market for a new volume pedal and a Black Box. Why don't you develop a potless pedal with BB circuitry in it?

Dave Z

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 19 Oct 2004 3:33 pm

Dave. Short answer: because the Hilton exists. The Hilton circuitry is so clean, that if you want the tubey benefits of a Black Box, you can have the Black Box right after the guitar and then feed the Hilton which will preserve all the sound and perform mechanically as the best VP ever. Long answer is that it would be pretty complex to achieve that potless optical gradient volume control based around tubes. The Black Box is very simple electronically.

Good Question,

Brad

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 19 Oct 2004 4:10 pm

Thanks for the answer Brad. Guess I'll have to buy both!

Dave

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 19 Oct 2004 6:35 pm

Herb,
I've hear a rumour that you actually use less kerosene when using the Black Box
Is there any truth to this rumour ??....

Seriously, the black box is one of the best things to happen to the pedal steel , and to guitar and bass players also ....Players can now benefit from the effect that a tube has on their tone without muddying up the tone !!.....Bravo Mr. Sarno !!...

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 19 Oct 2004 7:30 pm

I have found that since I have had the Black Box, I haven't had to change the LPG gas bottle in my amp at all -- before hand I had to get it refilled after only 2 gigs.

James Marlowe · Post by **James Marlowe** » 21 Oct 2004 4:39 pm

I purchased a black box several weeks ago. Just had to see if I could improve on what I thought to be as pretty a sounding guitar possible--Zumsteel through a Nashville 1000 and a 112. Well, I finally bypassed the box just to compare and I must say it sounded plum naked!! I'm sold on it!
Thanks Brad for a great piece of equipment.

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 23 Oct 2004 10:53 am

You guys are gonna cost me more money. Now I'm fully convinced I can't play until I get a Hilton pedal and a black box. I'm still not over having to add a seperate reverb to my 59 Fender bassman. Oh Santa, where are you? Next thing you know, I'll have to put NEW strings on too. Just kidding. I really do want to try the new toys out.

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 23 Oct 2004 1:32 pm

Would the black box be effective in the recording chain, if one was recording direct, and not using an amp?
I would go from my Hilton, to the black box, to the preamps (Neves), then into the DAW. Anyone done this? Does it really sound more tube-like?

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 23 Oct 2004 2:42 pm

I took mine over to Wayne Franco and guess who is buying one Monday?

Larry Behm

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 23 Oct 2004 7:28 pm

Thanks for a great time yesterday Larry and Paddy. I e-mailed Brad today! I'm like Roger Edgington. I won't be able to play until I get one.

And thanks for the amp settings. I like them in the small room. I'm excited to try them next Thursday.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 24 Oct 2004 2:50 am

Rich if you were recording a guitar into a direct box then the BB befor the DI is perfect.

But in your description you have the BB after the Hilton, and that defeats it's intent.

Which is have the BB tube stages interact un-impeded with the pick up,
and then you control the signal with Hiltons or other devices.

It is like plugging in to an old tube amp direct with no volume control.
you just get tube and pick up in perfect interaction.

You could do that, and then run a chain of effects and pedals etc, and then into ANOTHER BB just before your DI.
Restoring some of the life again.

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 24 Oct 2004 10:53 am

thanks for the reply. I posted before I looked on the web site and saw where the bbs' supposed to be in the signal chain. I've always loved recording direct into my 1272 preamps, but I'm a sucker for anything to bring me closer to the sound of tubes.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 24 Oct 2004 3:51 pm

Hey Herb, thanks. I learned a new word today.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=Luddite&x=9&y=17

And living in the middle of Silicon Valley, I should be aware of Luddites wherever they may lurk.

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Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 25 Oct 2004 12:37 am

Rich

I'm a sucker for anything to bring me closer to the sound of tubes.

That's exactlly why Brad built the BB.
He was missing that cool, tube sound.