George L cable question

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 31 Jul 2004 8:45 am

I need to order some more cable and plugs but I noticed they have two gauges now. Is there a difference in the sound between the .155 and .225?

Thanks, Dave

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 31 Jul 2004 9:12 am

I never heard any. In fact I have never heard any difference in most cablesm except under the following conditions.

1. Extra long cables will tend to attenuate the highest of the highs in some cases.

2. Poorly constructed shields (braided ground conductor) can allow noise to enter in.

I find the George L's to be highly desirable because they use a very tightly woven and braided ground (keeps noise to a minimum) AND they are so easy to "cut to length". In fact this feature makes them engenious, IMO.

As far as sound quality, I believe they are highly overated.

carl

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 31 Jul 2004 9:31 am

Carl

I'm surprised to hear this. I can ID George L's with my eyes closed in an A/B test. The highs are much clearer.

bob

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 31 Jul 2004 9:46 am

Bob, I can totally tell the difference between George Ls and other brands, too. I'm wondering if the two gauges of George Ls has any difference.

DZ

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 31 Jul 2004 9:51 am

I use Geo.L .155 with those great quick connect plugs. I have never tried a listening test between the 2 different diameter cables. I use the small stuff for its flexibility and I love those plugs. To repair the end,just cut, stick the cable in the plug and tighten the screw.
I bought a roll of cable and some plugs from George at the ISGC and make up any length I want... JD[This message was edited by John Daugherty on 31 July 2004 at 10:54 AM.]

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 31 Jul 2004 1:31 pm

Dave,
I am a George L dealer. George told me many years ago, that the wire and resistance of the 2 size cables is the same. Only the jacket is different.
I sell the .155 20 to 1 over the .255.

I too can tell a definate difference in sound using the George L cables. My highs are much cleaner.

I could never go back to other cables.

Bill

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 31 Jul 2004 9:04 pm

Dave,
Is there a difference in sound between the two gauges. No. I asked the Geoge L's folks at the Texas SGC, and at the ISGC.
I like the smaller cable because is coils up nicely and lays out flat when ready to use. I like the red cable because most folks won't step on a red cable.

(only the banjo picker)

Ron

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 1 Aug 2004 12:32 am

Through a buy/sell/trade deal, I now have a bunch of GL's of many handy lengths.

I like the GL's for steel, but for guitar they get all kinked up as I move around.

They don't seem to get caught in the earth gravity.
For playing guitar, I like the cable to drop like a rock to the floor, and not kink up (mine look like a cork screw from guitar to amp).

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 1 Aug 2004 6:12 am

Pete

Do you have the small or large diameter? I agree on the small for guitar as far as a twisted mess

bob

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 1 Aug 2004 6:17 am

Thanks guys. My question has been answered.

Pete B., congrats on the the Fender. Sounds fun. Maybe I'll get one too since I'm a Sneaky Pete/Ralph Mooney fan. If you're not gigging on August 20, drop by Mississippi Studios. I'll be playing there with some friends of mine.

Gonna order some red cables now. I'm gonna try both sizes.

Dave Z[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 01 August 2004 at 07:19 AM.]

Bill cole · Post by **Bill cole** » 2 Aug 2004 3:18 pm

Before you order you should look at the Lawrence cable it is new and it is great. I have both and you can sure tell the diffrence between the two

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 3 Aug 2004 3:26 am

Mr Carl Dixon is (As always) quite correct when he says they're over-rated.
I'm quite sure that the diameter of the inner core is directly concerned with the cable capacitance. I think.
But, what I know for sure is that PERCIEVED better highs can be created by a rolling off of the bottom end frequencies.
In side by side A-B tests, I have found that High quality Low-Loss SOLDERED leads have a better overall frequency response and LESS attenuation of the signal.
Baz

------------------

Steel players do it without fretting

http://www.waikiki-islanders.com

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 3 Aug 2004 4:25 am

Basilh, Your statement is absolutely true but I don't see how the cable could attenuate the low frequencies. As I see it, a cable has parallel capacitance that would have more attenuation of the highs. However, I will admit that I once owned a cheap skinny cable that seemed to attenuate the lows (never knew why). It sounded great with a lead guitar.
Since a cable cannot amplify, the only way it can change the sound is by "losses".
********************************************
"PERCIEVED better highs can be created by a rolling off of the bottom end frequencies"
********************************************

Roger Kelly · Post by **Roger Kelly** » 3 Aug 2004 6:49 am

I also use George L .155 dia. Plugs and cables and I like them.....every now and then I find that the knurled screw head on the 90 deg. plug will loosen up and cause some static, but once I re-tighten everything is O.K. I have other type cables and they are good. but they don't roll up as nice.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 3 Aug 2004 7:14 am

John D. , Carl D., and Basilh,
What brand of cable do you guys use?

DZ

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 3 Aug 2004 7:16 am

I might be old fashioned (I know I am!) but when I make up cables I still like to use a soldered connection!
Erv

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 3 Aug 2004 7:46 am

Dave, in my first reply I stated that I use Geo.L .155 ......... JD

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Aug 2004 7:57 am

Any two wires separated by a dielectric have distributed capacity between them. This capacity is accumlative, directly proportional to its length. At audio frequencies, inductance (in a guitar cable)is for all practical purposes nil.

So the only two fidelity problems a guitar cable would have are:

1. Possible attenuation of ever higher audio frequencies.

2. Noise introducion into the signal stream.

Noise can be dealt with by the manner, shape and format of the shield (ground conductor). Plus, the security of the ground connections within the plug. (Assumes the plugs are of high quality)

Most quality cable manufacturers handle this pretty well by using a very tigthly woven braided shield. Some better, some not so better.

Distributed capacity is determined by the distance between the conductors; the size and material of the conductors, the type of dielectric (the material between the conductors); and of course, the length of the conductors. Note: even air can be considered a dieletric.

However, at audio frequencies this is a very minor problem in the realm of signal carrying conductors. For all practical purposes, there is little (if any) detectable attenuation of the highs, if the cable distances are kept under 10 feet in length. From ten to 20 feet, detectable audible roll off of the highest of the highs may be detected by some ears.

Beyond 20 feet (on a progressive scale) the highs will roll off more and more, and most can detect it. This is why telephone companies had to install "load coils" every so many miles to offset this dilemma, prior to digital. If they had not done this, gramma would NOT sound like gramma

.

But we are talking about cables that are miles in length in this case.

Sound is soooo very subjective; and what muddies the water even more is the "eyes" play a major role in what we perceive, when it comes to sound. When you remove the eye's tremendous and overwhelming "bias", it would surprise even the most blessed of "ears".

It may make for good sales hype; it may make for "good ole boy" statements of "fact". But it will not stand a true test.

Georg L cables are a blessing to the guitarist, because of its genious in being able to "cut to length" and ease of adding plugs. Beyond that it is just another cable for all practical purposes.

If you truly believe that a George L cable is miles ahead of a Radio Shack guitar cable, or you believe it will make you sound like the next Buddy Emmons

, buy that saspsucker and play to your heart's content.

But I assure you, you sound the same to the overwhelming majority of ears; especially when they can't see you and your equipment.

May Jesus richly bless you all,

carl

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 Aug 2004 9:06 am

For all practical purposes, there is little (if any) detectable attenuation of the highs, if the cable distances are kept under 10 feet in length.

Carl, I used to believe that, until I actually tested different cables, between pickup and volume pedal, with no buffer amp. With SOME pickups, there is a big difference in sound between George L vs Radio Shack, even with only a 1 meter cable length. What's missing from your argument may be the consideration of the entire system including inductive reactance of the pickup, and resistance of the volume pedal.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Aug 2004 10:44 am

"A big difference"?

Love ya Ernest, especially after meeting you in person last year, in the Excel booth at the ISGC, but we will respectfully agree to disagree on the word "big".

Note to all: the stats as stated above I stand on. If your claims pass a triple blind A/B test, let's talk. If at least two players can pass the test, I will sincerely and respectfully, stand corrected.

But I must tell you that a triple blind test is as close to being absolutely unforgiving as anyhing (worldly) I know of; and these tests have shot more than just a few theories right in the "quick". As well as the proverbial "this one is much better than that one" claim.

When a player can sit blindfolded; with both the installer; AND the tester being totally in the dark; as to which was A and/or B in all the A/B tests; and that player can pass the test 5 times in a row; then that player's claim can be considered truth.

If the player fails it a single time, it is not truth according to all who conduct triple blind tests. The facts are, players will fail time and time again almost every "sound" claim made about PSG's, and every accessory ever made for them. Perceived sound is THE most subjective of man's 5 senses.

(note: Emmons' P/P's sound excluded)

As stated, the eye can color sound pereption more than ANY other factor. When a player is blindfolded, it gives that player "revelations" bordering on what the late Ray Charles had.

And there are few who ever perceived, performed and played sound like Ray, IMO. His being blind IMO, was responsible for a very large part of his talents. Because it forced the honing of his ears to an incredible degree of perfection.

But even here, a triple blind test would quickly prove, or disprove the subjectivity (or lack thereof) of whatever Ray said concerning sound products. This would apply to any player of any instrument (or accessory) including the instrument named "voice" as in a singer.

Finally, if'n ya feels lack 'dem George L's make ya sound better than inuthin since sliced bread, go for it dear friends.

I love of 'em because of the ease of installing dem infernal connectors. So I buy em. But I won't bet the farm they produce better sound than any other quality cable.

Flame on,

carl

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 3 Aug 2004 10:52 am

Ask a simple question and..........

Thanks guys!
DZ

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 Aug 2004 11:18 am

Carl,
Which pickup(s) did you test? Did you try the Lawrence 710 (or 712)?

Steve Pierce · Post by **Steve Pierce** » 3 Aug 2004 3:33 pm

Hey Dudes,

I use both sizes of George L cable. I use the smaller size to go between pedals and I use the bigger size to get to my instrument. The bigger size cable isn't as prone to tangling up.

They sound the same.

The bigger size cable doesn't have a right angle option though

------------------
Steve Pierce

Bill cole · Post by **Bill cole** » 3 Aug 2004 6:39 pm

Sorry Carl I'm with Earnest on this one I tried both the new Lawrence cable and the George L. Cable with the 710 and the LXR-12 -10 and also the LXR 16-12 and the diffrence is unreal and the diffrence between the Small cable and the standard guitar cable is like Day and Night.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Aug 2004 7:07 pm

Ernest I never tried different PU's. A cable is a cable, if it meets the stats I described above.

No cable can ever improve fidelity beyond what a given PU puts out. IE, the best it can do is to have a flat response. NO cable ever built has a flat response IF, the conductors are in relatively close proximity to each other. Which all guitar cables have.

However, the slight amount of high frequency attenution any guitar cable would have (at audio frequencies) is so small, that I stand on the stats I gave before.

The human ear is just toooo subjective to be used as a tester. We learn that in audio 101. When you have passed a triple blind test, talk to me.

Best we agree to disagree.

love you all,

carl