Does it have to be a blackface?

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 8 Dec 2003 11:56 am

Fender Twin for sale locally; stock 1971 silverface circuit. Newer, hotter tubes, different speakers. Not a collectors item, of course, so that's not really important...

What I'm wondering is: why is it so prized that the blackface circuit be in the amp? Is it a big deal for playing steel through it, or does it only matter for guitar players??? Is Silverface okay for steel on an older twin?

Thanks for illuminating the darkness, anyone...

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 8 Dec 2003 12:17 pm

I was about to post my own Fender question--my amp just arrived and I'm waiting for it to reach room temperature before firing it up---

blackface-----if the '71 date is accurate then the process--if desired--of blackfacing it is a simple one for any tech. The answer is---it is NOT necessary. Some people consider SF to be a better fit for steel--cleaner, better headroom. But there is a historical, vintage sound in the BF. So it's a toss-up as to whether to BF it or not. It is absolutely not essential. The later 70's 135w twin cannot really be BF'ed.

btw---the speakers will be an important piece of the tone-chain. If they are hot guitar break-up speakers then you may need to invest around $150 in a pair of more appropriate 12's or around $100 for a 15. Another important consideration, if you were thinking of replacing the 2x12 baffle with a 1x15 is that the later SF twin had a glued-in baffle that is brutal to try to replace. Not a happy scenario. I'm not sure how to tell or what to look for (if this was your plan). [This message was edited by Jon Light on 08 December 2003 at 12:21 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Dec 2003 3:11 pm

So how do you know if the stock speakers are suitable for steel, and what would be good replacements if you wanted to stay with two 12s?

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 8 Dec 2003 3:47 pm

mmmmmm.......I'm out of my league and talking too much. I've got to revise that statement. First of all I think it is likely that anything in a Twin, provided it is rated for the power (at least half the wattage of the output) and not underpowered to induce speaker breakup, would be usable. So we're not talking about uselessness here. And in fact I played thru a reissue last week that I presume was stock and I think that the stock RI speakers have been pretty well maligned. And it sounded pretty good. So the scuttlebutt may be considerably exaggerated.
So let me outright retract the original statement. If the amp is good, I'd think that speaker replacement would be optional and just the next step toward tone refinement. If I'm starting to sound like some kind of expert then I'd better step back and watch myself. I'm learning this stuff. Not teaching it.

One of the popular speaker choices for a Twin is the Weber California. Pretty heavy--big magnets.

David Friedlander · Post by **David Friedlander** » 8 Dec 2003 10:28 pm

Hey Dave,
I'm also twin shopping.
I picked up a 65 RI Twin at Sam Ash. Since they have a 14 day money back policy, you can really get a good chance to make sure the amp sounds good with your guitar.
I can attest to what Jon said. The amp, right off the floor, with 2 12 inch Jensens sounds awesome- great headroom and rich lush tone.
You miss some of the punch of the JBL's.
I'm thinking of keeping the Twin and putting in a set of 12" JBL D120's.
I've heard that the baffle in the new 65 RI Twins is pressboard and can't handle the weight of the JBL's.
You're less likely to have this problem with a 70's model.

Can you try the amp with your steel? That's the bottom line. Doesn't matter what color the face plate is- you'll either hear "your" sound or not

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Dec 2003 7:04 am

The S/F Twin Reverb will do you quite well, Nicholas. The most significant difference in the B/F vs. S/F amps is the biasing and the output. The power difference is noticeable (the S/F being more powerful), but other differences are very subtle. I assure you that, tone-wise, not one person a thousand can tell the amps apart in a live-band situation.

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 9 Dec 2003 9:13 am

I'm thinking of staying away from this one... it wasn't blackfaced, which is fine, but it was modified to use tubes that were intended to make it more powerful. Stock tubes an speakers are there to put back in, but what spooked me a little is that the dude says that the reverb was eliminated when he "hot-rodded" the amp (his words). The speakers are apparently currently EV 12s.

Perhaps not worth getting mixed up with. It is a '71, so I think the baffle-board problems might be not come up for swapping to a single 15"... but these other issues are of concern for me; I don't want to put money into a twin with no reverb

[This message was edited by Nicholas Dedring on 09 December 2003 at 09:14 AM.]

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 9 Dec 2003 10:31 am

It's the black guitars that sounds the best, not the amps.

Well seriously, i agree with Donny on this. To me a good silverface will sound better than a poorly maintained blackface.(Or vice versa) It also depends on the condition of speakers, tubes, filter caps and a bunch of things that i don't know the english words for.

Uffe[This message was edited by Ulf Edlund on 09 December 2003 at 10:32 AM.]

Keith Murrow · Post by **Keith Murrow** » 9 Dec 2003 10:49 am

..[This message was edited by Keith Murrow on 26 October 2004 at 04:24 PM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 9 Dec 2003 12:24 pm

I have a '67 silver faced Twin Reverb with JBL speakers in it from the factory. The sound is awesome but you can rupture yourself dragging it around. However, I put castors underneath it and that helps. From the factory, there was always a hum in it but I took it to an amp guru and he quieted it down and now it can't be beat.
Erv

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Dec 2003 5:36 pm

I agree...something sounds fishy with that one! For one reason, the T/R has a reverbless channel, so I don't see what you might gain by eliminating the reverb in the "A" channel, unless he's using that reverb-driver tube socket now for something else, (but that's doubtful). Tube Fenders, especially the T/R's, have one of the best reverb sounds, bar none!

Sooner or later, you might come across a nice 135-watt version...and I think that'll keep you happy!

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 10 Dec 2003 3:18 am

Dave, for staying with 2 12" speakers, look into EV speakers, to my ears and some others they are better sounding than JBL, this will make the amp real heavy, but comes closer to a single 15" sound better than any 2 12" combo, I don't know if BW 12" speakers come in a non metalic dust cover if they do, I would guess that would sound pretty good, to my ears JBL sound to nasal, but then again they are a favorite of many