Smaller Amp Choices

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 26 Jul 2003 5:39 am

I'm wanting a smaller tube amp for smaller rooms.

I have a line on a SF Deluxe Reverb that has been restored and updated (reverb & trem in both channels, different tone stack in ch 1, SRO speaker) by a reputable guy for under $600. It looks beautiful---new cabinet. But I can save money with a new or used Hot Rod Deluxe. Or even a new Traynor 40. But the vibe of a Deluxe! I'm pacing in little circles here. Any thoughts about these options or any others?

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 26 Jul 2003 7:32 am

Get the Deluxe Reverb. You won't regret it. And even if you do, you'll come a lot closer to getting your money back on future sale or trade.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 26 Jul 2003 9:59 am

..Jon, I had a Hot Rod Deluxe which I didn't really like for steel, I liked it for Tele..I sold it and then kicked myself for selling it...UNTIL I got a Vibrosonic with a 15" SRO in it, which is not that far off a Deluxe Reverb from what I understand...now I have a kick-ass amp that sounds great with both steel and 6-string, and if you're in a smaller room you can turn the volume down and it still sounds great, especially in the lower registers..

...best thing to do is to A-B them if you can..

..

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 26 Jul 2003 12:53 pm

I'd go for the Deluxe Reverb myself. Although the Hot Rod Deluxe is a fine amp, it's not the same sound or quality Deluxe.

As Pat said, if you can do a side by side comparison, you'll buy the one that sounds best to you.

------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 26 Jul 2003 1:05 pm

A/B-ing is not an option---it's an online deal. I've just contacted the seller that if it's not too late I'm taking it. He's a regular on the Weber board who does these rehabs and restorations and builds his own cabs. It's a '69 DR chassis that was hacked. He totally restored it, modded it with what he describes as an AC30 tone stack in Ch. 1 (I'm all for doing something different with one channel of a two channel Fender), put the rev. & trem on both channels and built the cab. By all rights it should be a better than new Deluxe Reverb. I'm psyched. I've wanted a small tube amp w/ reverb for those simple straight-up straight-to-the-amp no-fuss situations.
Thanks for the thoughts.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 26 Jul 2003 3:16 pm

..you won't be sorry..

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 26 Jul 2003 7:28 pm

the Deluxe of course...

I would say a Vibrolux offers the finest balance twixt weight / power / portability; but the Deluxe is also very nice choice for "parlour" steel guitar work

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 27 Jul 2003 5:06 am

Yeah, parlours and salons. We got lots of that here. Gotta get someone to make a doily for my new DR.
http://webdev.loyola.edu/swatson/de-lux-1.jpg
http://webdev.loyola.edu/swatson/de-lux-2.jpg [This message was edited by Jon Light on 27 July 2003 at 06:08 AM.]

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 27 Jul 2003 8:48 am

Excuse my ignorance, what is a SF Deluxe?

I'm starting to consider the re-issue Vibrosonic amp. My Hot Rod Deluxe works great for my swing band with no drummer but we're very volume-conscious and in that setting it's perfect. The size and weight are very manageable. However, an extra 10-20 watts would be most weclome.

I owned a silver-face Vibrosonic once and it never disappointed me as far as sound was concerned. When country music started to sound more like hard rock (late '80s-early '90s) it was not sufficient volume-wise. Mine had an EV speaker and the weight WAS and issue, especially moving it up and down stairs. (be sure your health insurance covers sprains and fractures while gigging

)

The holy grail of amps would be an all-tube amp in the 60-70 watt range that weighs in under 50 lbs. --JR

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 27 Jul 2003 8:57 am

I forgot to mention; back in the late '70s I constructed an amp I called the "Bassman-Boogie." It was an older black-face Fender Bassman head in a custom built cabinet with a 12" 4-ohm EV speaker. Great amp for guitar, something like the then-new Mesa Boogie amps for guys on a budget like me. Problem was, no reverb. I've considered doing that project again and using my effects that include a pretty nice digital reverb. The size and shape and quality of the cabinet does matter, so far as tone is concerned. I remember when I traded up to the Vibrosonic my sound improved considerably.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 27 Jul 2003 9:16 am

Hi John---the Deluxe Reverb is like a Twin Reverb cut in half--half the tubes, half the speakers. Except the tubes are 6v6 instead of 6L6---they are lower output than the 6L6 (the Twin and the Vibrosonic use 6L6) and have their own sound. A lot of guitarists like the Deluxe because it can be overdriven (although it will be pretty loud) unlike a twin where the walls will beak up before the sound will. This old amp is lower powered than your HR Deluxe---22W vs. 40W. It weighs a bit less although mine has an EV that is probably a bunch heavier than the stock speaker.
Your dream amp may or may not be feasible. Output like that requires transformers that carry serious weight. And the cabinet needs to be gig-worthy. And the speakers need some good magnets. (although the neo. magnets will make a significant difference. For a big price.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 27 Jul 2003 10:17 am

I assume SF stands for "silver face"?

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 27 Jul 2003 11:14 am

Yessir, that's correct. CBS/Fender, 1968--onward. So much more affordable than the more collectible black-face models and in many cases just as good.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 28 Jul 2003 6:25 am

I've got a Deluxe Reverb and a Blues Deluxe(predecessor to Hot Rod w/one overdrive instead of two), and to me a Blues/HotRod Deluxe would be a better choice just because of the extra power. Unless you're playing solo, the Deluxe Rever isn't going to have enough power for the steel with any kind of a band. A big difference between 20 and 40 watts.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 28 Jul 2003 5:58 pm

Jon,
I recently stumbled on a nice little gem .
I had been using my Carvin Vintage 33 fro guitar work, and was really impressed with the clean tone and how it sounded so much like a BF Fender Deluxe Reverb without the cost....It has 4-EL84's and 33 watts of power...The 50 watt model which is being made today, you can find for right around $350 or so used....Great reverb, and a really nice little amp ...I was very pleasently surprised.....The "soak" or lead channel is a little dark, but there are mods that some of the guys on the Carvin Amp forum list that work unbelievably well
I did the mods to the "soak" channel and it's a killer little amp for lead, rhythm, or pedal steel work ...Check em out !!...Jim

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 Jul 2003 6:08 pm

My main pedalsteel amp has been my nice little 68 Fender deluxe. I have been lucky in that I'm playing gigs with great musicians that keep there stage volume under control and that there are PAs with competent sound guys working them.

Jon,
You are going to love that little sucker ! Just plug right in to the first input if you are using a single coil or the second input if you are using a BL 7/12. Nothing sweeter sounding.

Bob

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 28 Jul 2003 7:16 pm

You guys are making me want one of those Deluxe amps. I'm especially envious of being able to play gigs with musicians of the caliber who can keep the vol. down for that little 22-watt amp to be heard. Cleanly. Imagine being able to make one trip from the car with PSG in one hand and the amp with the other. OK, two trips, don't forget the Pak-Seat! --JR

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 28 Jul 2003 10:52 pm

Are we talking about the "65" Deluxe Reverb reissue?

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 29 Jul 2003 11:10 am

Thanks Bob. I do expect to like this a lot. John---Bob knows what my weekly gig is so he's probably chuckling a bit at your comment about playing with musicians of such high calibre----no, I have a feeling this Deluxe won't be quite up to the task of this particular situation. But a Deluxe is something I've lusted after for a while now. My next project will be to find playing situations where I can use it.
Kenny---we are talking about vintage 60's and 70's Fenders. The '65 reissue is based on a black-face DR (1965, I'd reckon

) I've heard pros and cons on the reissue. Some people call it thin and shrill. Others think it's great. Controversy. So what else is new? I've not heard one myself.

Bob Metzger · Post by **Bob Metzger** » 29 Jul 2003 12:05 pm

Jon,

I think thin and shrill hits the nail on the head for RI DR. For those interested in this amp, check out the mod on 'The Blue Guitar' for the RI.

The Deluxe Reverb is really right in the middle and can be pointed in different directions with great success. I've used one for steel (in certain situations) for a long time, and as long as you don't play it too loud and do get it maxxed for headroom, you will love it. As I play guitar also, mine has reverb in both channels. One channel is voiced for electric guitar and the other channel voiced for steel. I find that a middle control is indispensible in these amps. I simply removed the double input jacks (and save them as is for future stock replacement) and use one input jack and a 10K middle control in their place. I choose the 1st preamp tube very carefully for steel; try several. Make sure your filter caps are in good working order and fairly new. If they are 30 years old, replace them. That goes for all electrolytics. Get the Phase Inverter maxxed out for most headroom possible (Really important for steel guitar use). If the power tubes have those suppressor caps on the grids, take 'em out. It'll kill your tone.

I really like 6L6s in these amps with a ss rectifier (more of a headroom/voicing change rather than greater power) but whatever you do, use at least a 5AR4A/GZ34 rectifier tube. The speaker choice makes a huge difference in these amps, my favorite being the EVM 12 L (but the S sounds very good also). I'm not convinced about SROs for steel use. Some folks may like JBLs but that can get very bright and harsh, depending. Whatever you do, use a high-efficiency speaker. Don't run the bias too hot as most guitarists love to do. All that will do is get you more breakup and shorter tube life.

These amps sound ok/good for steel right out of the box but with a few creative tweaks they can be a magic recording and small venue amp. They have the potential to sound absolutely great, in their power class.

Just as a point of fact: CBS bought Fender on January 5, 1965. Of course, it took awhile for changes to be felt thru the whole product line.

Good luck,

Bob M.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 29 Jul 2003 3:34 pm

Thanks for the real good post, Bob. I'm saving it for future reference.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 30 Jul 2003 2:36 am

Has anyone tried two Deluxes run stereo?

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 30 Jul 2003 2:54 am

Has anyone tried two Deluxes run stereo?

Yes! but they were two 1956 tweed Deluxes with a Ricky lap steel.
I have five Deluxes- one wide panel tweed, the two '56 narrow panel tweeds, a '66 blackface Deluxe Reverb and a '73 Silverface Deluxe reverb.
The '73 has 6L6 tubes with a ss rect. and a JBL D120f speaker. I run the steel through the "normal ch" and guitar though "Vibroto ch", I have it set so it has reverb on both channels and bypass the tremollo(switch on the pot) to have even more headroom.
If I'm playing a small room its fine and if its miked it works perfect, and its small and light. Its close to becoming my most usefull amp, right now thats my '66 Pro Reverb.

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 30 Jul 2003 4:02 am

I have a feeling this Deluxe won't be quite up to the task of this particular situation. But a Deluxe is something I've lusted after for a while now.

Aha! the "truth" comes out....

Rick Maxwell · Post by **Rick Maxwell** » 5 Aug 2003 4:14 am

I've been extremely pleased with Fender Cyber-Twin. It's like having all the old classic amps and new custom shop stuff in one. It's great for guitar and steel since it's so versitle. It's pricy though $$$