HELP!!!!!! Is Goodrich becoming obselete??

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 22 Feb 2003 4:45 pm

Allen Bradley went out of the manufacturing business over eight years ago. Any that you find now will already have the time factor against it. Yes, the pot was much better when built by Allen -Bradley. They sold out to Clearostat and they don't care at all about our need for a quality pot. All they did was triple the price and cut corners on quality.
Someone out there needs to come up with a pot rebuild kit, or a new quality pot, come on , somebody! This isn't rocket science. It's just a little tiny item that couldnt cost much to build, after tooling up. Seems like a golden opertunity for some average guy that wants to make a bunch of money!
Bobbe Seymour

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 22 Feb 2003 5:52 pm

What really amuses me is that you are all after that real "authentic" sound so you drag out the old Sho~Buds and the old push/pull Emmons and brag them up to no end. If you really like that old authentic sound you really should stick with an old pot pedal. After all that is what was used on those old records that everyone drools over.
Uff-Da!

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 22 Feb 2003 6:18 pm

Bobbe: You replaced the pot in my Emmons pedal a few weeks ago ---remember. Its not the same pedal.(it stinks) I know its not your fault--just the Clarastat pot. I was wondering if you had my old pot laying around anywhere. I sure miss it. It was'nt but 22 years old. I called an Electrical Supply house yesterday trying to find an Allen Bradly pot. He said he could order one but it was 124.10. If he had ordered it it would probably have been a Clarostat and he would'nt have known the difference. Anyway, if My Goodrich goes bad)after 18 years) I guess I'll have to go the Hilton route also. Good to see you post again.----Eddie

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 22 Feb 2003 6:37 pm

All the super long-life studio pots and faders are made of conductive plastic. Would that work for a volume pedal???

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 22 Feb 2003 6:40 pm

Bobbe: In all honesty. the pedal is OK. Its very playable and will out last me. However I can tell a difference. I think the old pot was better but we can't control whats available for replacements. I see this every day working as a maintainence mechanic.-------Eddie

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 22 Feb 2003 7:49 pm

Erv,there is nothing to drool over, these days other then teenage models trying to sing country music.

p.s.

Uff-Da[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 22 February 2003 at 07:50 PM.]

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 22 Feb 2003 7:50 pm

Kenny, I became a Hilton user for two great reasons. First, yes the pot when it gets cold has too much noise, but the biggest reason is that the tone doesn't change with volumn increase and the electronics in the pedal does away from having to use a matchbox or other boosters to brighten the tone. As for the cost, when you can spend 2 or 3 grand for a guitar, what's an additional 10 o/o for a first class piece of equipment?

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 22 Feb 2003 8:47 pm

Erv, It's not the pot pedal itself that's a bad thing ,it's when the pot itself goes bad and you can't BUY a good sounding pot to put back in it. That's the problem. It's like crackin a good looking walnut, when you get inside the nut is no good. Bobbe, Ever have that happen to you? I'm talkin about a walnut now. Thanks for the replies and info guys.---Kenny Ray---

Terry Downs · Post by **Terry Downs** » 23 Feb 2003 12:09 am

The point of this topic is very interesting. Where in the world today do you know where any product is being built using a RV4 style military potentiometer with solder terminals (the pot we are talking about)? The electronics industry does not support it. It is a dinosaur. Modern audio products use digital attenuators and modern guitar amplifiers and mixers use pots that are circuit board mounted and the smaller the better. Just like a vacuum tube, we will have to buy them from Russia someday.

The steel guitar community must look into the future as we have a unique requirement for a variable foot controlled attenuator of which its infidelities are not easily forgiven by its users.

Although I am not an owner of a Hilton pedal (yet), I strongly believe the future of the steel guitar volume pedal is NOT a mechanically manipulated carbon composition potentiometer.

We as steel guitarists must realize that our population cannot fuel the demand of prices like a $49.95 VCR from Walmart. Imagine the technology in a VCR just to control volume on a steel!!

I have spent my electronics engineering career of 23 years developing complex defense systems. Believe me, I know how expensive to you as a taxpayer it is to develop the things we have to keep our country safe. 290 million American folks as taxpayers make this possible. There are only a few hundred steel players in the world. That is not enough to make the price of a volume pedal $25. This should be thought of when you question the cost of a Hilton pedal. I think Goodrich has done an outstanding job providing us product at resonable cost. Unfortunately, they have an obsolete part problem.

Regards,
Terry

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 23 Feb 2003 1:33 am

Hilton is the best pedal on the market today and will be for a long time to come. I cant imagine anyone coming up with anything better unless it is Keith himself. It only costs a little more to go first class.

------------------

Martin W. Emmons LG III 3/5 Peavy 1000

Quesney Gibbs · Post by **Quesney Gibbs** » 23 Feb 2003 4:29 am

I have never noticed any type of tone change caused by my old Goodrich Light pedal.

Perhaps I am tone deaf. I know that I have been accused of being totally deaf by my ex wife (the old buzzard) whenever she mentioned any sort of help around the house.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 23 Feb 2003 9:31 am

Which patent number does Keith have on his pedal? I cannot find it with the US Patent And Trademark Office (USPTO) site search engine under either issued patents or applied-for patents. I searched for his name as inventor, but maybe it is filed under some other entity (such as a business name).

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 23 Feb 2003 10:53 am

Terry Downs, great post and very accurate!
I totally agree. The pot is a prehistoric device, but I hope I don't have to throw my volume pedal collection away some day. Yes, I play a Hilton, but I do have a neat old collection of prehistoric volpeds. And again, great post Terry!
And Martin, it's acctually cheaper to go first class in this instance, if you are going to play for over three years.
Quesney, get a hearing check done on your ears! Youv'e been playing MSA too long! (DON'T GET MAD AT ME, I'm only kidding!)
Your friend,
Bobbe Hearmour

PS, I wonder if Mr. Hilton would convert our old pot pedals to his modern method control of volume? Would the stuff fit? Is it practical? [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 23 February 2003 at 10:59 AM.]

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 23 Feb 2003 11:59 am

I never considered the Hilton Pedal expensive. It does cost more than other pedals, but I feel the cost is low considering the quality of the parts, fit, design, and support.

I couldn't make one for twice the price.

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 23 Feb 2003 8:18 pm

Bill, I searched the USPTO website too for any patent issued with "Keith Hilton" as inventor and there was none as of 02/18/2003. This leaves at least two explanations: 1) there is no patent that has issued yet (ie the invention has not been allowed yet as a patent and is thus still "patent pending"); and 2) Keith Hilton is not an inventor on the patent.

If anyone who owns a Hilton pedal wants to help out here, look on your pedal or packaging or instruction sheet and see if you can see anything that says "pat. no. blah blah blah" or "patent pending" anywhere on the pedal. A product protected by an issued patent must display the patent number. If the product says "patent pending," then this, of course, means that the patent application is still being examined to see if it will issue as a patent.

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 23 Feb 2003 8:32 pm

Quesney, and all that this applies to......If YOU don't hear a tone change, by all means stick with what you have. Jim, I think alot of the reason you've had great longevity from your pedal is the fact that it uses an AB pot. I still have about 5 or 6 pot pedals, all have AB's in them, they all work fine...I use them as back-ups. Haven't had to yet. I use them mainly for practise, swapping weekly to keep the pots from getting scratchy.
There is NOTHING wrong with Goodrich pedals.....it's the dang potentiometers that are being produced now....get it? The pedals themselves are the finest quality. One word about 'light beam'...I've tried a few over the years, and they suck...of course this is just an opinion.
The Hilton is really a dream come true in that steel players can finally have the biggest tone-drainer in their chain go away. Having zero-resistance from your guitar is just the best, whether you're a 'backside' player, or tend to play 'wide open'.....I'm certainly one of the latter and have always been frustrated by the change in tone from pad level to fill to lead.

Tom Hodgin · Post by **Tom Hodgin** » 24 Feb 2003 8:05 pm

Gentleman, in the past couple of years I have read numerios threads on things that can have an affect on our sound..from amps to strings to pickups to the very guitars we play...and now the volume pedals...How about the cables we hook all this stuff together with...and lets not forget the picks and the angle to which the pick strikes the strings...now I know I'm leaving out a few dozen things, but I wonder, do many of these things really matter that much to the Road Warriors out there, OR ARE WE JUST TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING..??

tom

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 24 Feb 2003 10:38 pm

Tom, I think that all these things do add up to great tone. I've been privelaged to be around some of the finest tone players in the business in the last ten years and I have incorporated alot of what I've seen and heard. I am getting ready to make the switch to the Hilton pedal. Some things do absolutely make a difference in quality of tone (including technique). I agree with you about cables also.

Dag Wolf · Post by **Dag Wolf** » 24 Feb 2003 11:24 pm

Well Bobbe`s math seems right to me.... and if you don`t need the three-chord hook up with the Hilton, you will not need to buy three 10 feet chords

It`s back to one 3 feet and one 10 feet cable.

Dag

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 25 Feb 2003 11:57 am

After having read the above re volume pedals, I am wondering what other pedal mfgrs. are using these days. How about all the PSG makers who sell a pot/pedal with their name on it? If you look in Sam Ash or Musicians' Friend there are number of vol. pedals rockers are using. One of which is the ol' Ernie Ball pedal which I used for a number of years (during the Allen Bradley days) and changing pots in one of those was a challenge. So what are these guys using nowadays?

Also, has anybody found a substitute for the old standby Goodrich and (now) Hilton pedals to carry along as backup? I'm thinking of something cheaper and lighter in weight, that easily fits in that small space in the ol' Pak-a-Seat. You know, something to get you thru the gig till you can fix the "Good" pedal. I was considering one of the Boss FV type pedals but have been duly warned that they aren't up to the job. Suggestions?
--JR

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · Post by **Buck Grantham R.I.P.** » 25 Feb 2003 8:44 pm

I have been completely happy with my Hilton pedal. I've had it about 3 years now and it has not needed any service and I love the sound I get on my guitar with it. If you want quality products that last a long time ,this is one of the best investments you can make.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 27 Feb 2003 10:12 pm

Goodrich is alive and well. I have just aquired one of their new G series pedals, the G 10. It is a combination pot and light pedal. Works great. Jody.

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 12 Mar 2003 4:06 pm

Thanks for the replies GENTLEMEN.

William Peters · Post by **William Peters** » 14 Mar 2003 1:25 pm

As an electronics engineer, I agree that the only trouble with the Goodrich is the quality of the pot. These pots were essentially made for panel mounted volume controls on radio and tv gear. In that application, they don't get cycled a lot.

However, there are pots available using newer technology than carbon composition, that are made for applications like joysticks, and position sensing in machinery which have rated lifespans of up to 50 million cycles (movements) as opposed to the Clarostat which is rated at 1 million cycles. Most of these units are linear tapers, instead of audio, but a linear pot can be converted to log (audio) with the simple addition of an external resistor which costs under a buck. You can read about this procedure and pots in general at http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm

When my pot goes bad, I will select one of these industrial position sensing pots, and convert it to volume pedal use insteading of replacing it with another WW2 vintage part. Oh, and did I say they were available for less than $20.00?

Bill
Cougar SD-10, Peavey TNT-115, Studio S-100, Goodrich 120

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 14 Mar 2003 1:57 pm

William, where can we get those 50M cycle rated pots? What is the brand name and type? Thanks.