Any chance this sounds decent?

Steve Frost · Post by **Steve Frost** » 19 Oct 2001 3:10 pm

This is a little bit difficult to confess to a large group of people, many of whom exhibit the notorious Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Anyway, years ago I traded a fiddle for an electric guitar and amp. Shortly thereafter, I came to realize that both items had been "modified" or "upgraded" by a halfwit. For instance, this engineer cut about 3/8" off the nut end of the fretboard to accommodate a locking nut.

I wish I was kidding. I repaired that,expertly I might add. Unfortunately, the "craftsman" had also turned his/her hand to the amp. This was a blackface Fender Princeton Reverb, which originally had a 10" speaker. For whatever reason, or perhaps no reason, this busybody pulled the reverb tank, to make room for a (presumably cheap) 15" speaker. It's a SOURCE, for all you precision freaks. I haven't heard of the brand before or after the fact, but the whole gestalt of the mod makes me doubt that it's a top shelf item. Maybe it's the cookie rack in lieu of grill cloth that brings these doubts to the fore.

At any rate... is it possible that this could sound decent as a steel amp for home use- totally by accident? Note that I had no steel, or any specific notions in that direction when I acquired it. It sounds OK to me, but then, I have no contrast, coupled with the fact that my playing is less than rudimentary. Yeah, I realize that you can't hear it, and that if it's good enough for me right now, then it's OK. But is it possible that this Bozo stumbled onto an "acceptable" steel practice amp? Oh, sorry- acceptable don't mean just what it used to!

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 19 Oct 2001 3:59 pm

Hey Steve,
I think for low volume practice that amp should be fine; I played numerous shows with a Deluxe Reverb reish and it performed admirably. If you try to play loud, you will have a blackface distortion pedal on your hands, though.
(br)A 15 in a Princeton? I didn't think that could be done. Reminds me of that story about a steel of the Big E's that a family of hill people turned into a wagon for their offspring...

Steve Frost · Post by **Steve Frost** » 19 Oct 2001 4:50 pm

Well... it probably couldn't be done..... unless you were determined to cut the head off the cabinet, and splice in a substitute lower unit, deep six the reverb tank, cover the whole mess in heavy vinyl, and add a cookie rack to protect the oversized speaker from unwanted incursions! Not many people have the need to customize their world to this (puzzling) extent. Maybe it "seemed to be a good idea at the time", in the classic words of Steve McQueen, from the film The Magnificent Seven. It seems to have been a fair amount of work, though shabbily done- Steve

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 19 Oct 2001 7:39 pm

I have a friend that uses a Silverface princeton Reverb for a practice amp, with the original 10" speaker. He loves it! I think it would work nicely. This amp could be restored by getting a 10" baffle with grill from Mojotone or Vibroworld(even available with aged cloth). I've bought complete vintage replacement cabinets from both, they are top notch in my book. They have great 10" speakers for as low as $28.00. I put two of their 50 watt, 10" speakers in a reproduction Bandmaster cabinet, sounded great (these cost all of $32.00 each).[This message was edited by Ken Fox on 19 October 2001 at 08:40 PM.]

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 19 Oct 2001 7:46 pm

After reading your last reply a little closer it looks like you might need a whole cabinet. A complete cabinet with handle, backs, grill cloth is $234.00 at Mojotone. It would be a shame to see a Blackface amp left like that! Let me know if it needs a new home and some TLC, I do adopt!!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Oct 2001 7:17 am

Would it work as a practice amp? Sure, and so would a "Pignose" with a Black Widow!

This is probably the solid-state late-model Princeton...right? (Since I know several dudes that would kill someone who did something like that to a vintage tube amp.)
Most steelplayers take their sound pretty seriously, but some have very low requirements in the amp department, and will use just about anything. (Hopefully, these guys are a declining category.)

A dinky low-wattage amp with a really big speaker added is not a new discovery (I was once young and dumb enough to try it myself).

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 20 Oct 2001 11:00 am

Although it's hard to say, my guess is that this amp would sound better with a lap steel than a pedal steel. In most household situations, it should be okay.
I wish I still had my blackface Princeton Reverb. I sold it back in 1978 for $75 - the same that I paid for it!

------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Steve Frost · Post by **Steve Frost** » 20 Oct 2001 2:08 pm

It's a tube amp for sure, Donny.

Steve Frost · Post by **Steve Frost** » 20 Oct 2001 2:16 pm

Before the Fender Preservation Commandos lock and load on me , allow me to reiterate that I had NOTHING to do with this conversion/perversion. I traded a $100 fiddle that I hadn't played in 10 years for the guitar and amp, and frankly (obviously) I didn't examine either one critically, beyond the fact that they worked. For curiosity, how do the wattages of Fender tube amps that legitimately use a 15" speaker compare to this Princeton. I'll tell you a secret- I don't know much about amps, so any info would help!

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 20 Oct 2001 2:36 pm

The Vibroverb was a 40 watt with a 15". The Pro, tweed amp in the fiftys was even less.

Robert · Post by **Robert** » 20 Oct 2001 5:06 pm

Steve:
First thing I posted was "I hope it wasn't a good fiddle . . . " - then I read the later post about the $100. fiddle, so - all things considered, who's to say? If you USE the new gear more than you did the fiddle, then you did OK. But you're not going to gig with that rig you described, and as soon as you gain some proficiency (or sooner), you will suffer a much-deserved case of G.A.S.!
You'll have to let everybody know what you settle on, and a POX on whomever screwed around with that Princeton Reverb - they're great amps.

Rob Yale[This message was edited by Robert on 20 October 2001 at 06:14 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Oct 2001 6:18 am

Steve, early Princetons had only 3 tubes (one 6V6) and put out 5 or 6 watts. Later models with 5 tubes (two 6V6's) are good for maybe 12 watts. The reverb model had 7 tubes (I think), but still only 12-15 watts. This may be better than no amp, but it sure doesn't cut it for pedal steel work. Even when miked, the amp just doesn't have enough power to get a decent tone. Like Brad said, it might be OK for some lap steel work, though. (I'd have never guessed you could even fit a 15" speaker in that cabinet!)

Steve Frost · Post by **Steve Frost** » 21 Oct 2001 4:03 pm

It looks like it took a bit of determined hatchet work to fit thie 15" speaker in there. Is there any reason to think that this amp would sound better for steel with a 10" speaker, I don't feel that it's incumbent upon me to restore this amp, but I'm curious. Low power, big speaker makes it sound..... how? Is it only a problem at higher volumes. Just looking for some cause /effect relationships - I'm not trying for hundreds of posts on this topic - Thanks!- Steve

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 21 Oct 2001 8:39 pm

It would work for practice or jamming with acoustic guitarists, but as soon as someone plugs in a mike you'll feel under-powered. Some of those Princeton Reverbs have a real pretty tone. They just don't have much power.

Joe E · Post by **Joe E** » 24 Oct 2001 9:54 am

The Source speaker is made by Pyle and is a excellant speaker for a stamped frame style. They are not all that cheap either.

As for the princeton itself, I swapped the ten for a twelve in the one I own and played small gigs on guitar and Lap. Also this was one of the best sounding recording amps I ever owned. Traded mine years ago for a Vibrolux with 2 tens.

If your lookin to sell yours at a reasonable price for its condition let me know.

Joe