Boss TU-12H TUNER HELP!

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 28 Nov 2000 9:34 am

Thank's in advance for your time to reply...I'm a newbie and I just recently bought a new Boss TU-12H tuner. It doesn't seem to be working correctly, or I have a guitar that just won't tune any string!

Here's the deal...I use a power supply (Boss PSA) and a new 9 volt battery, George L cables directly from the guitar to the input of the TU-12H tuner, then out of the tuner to my amp. My pedal is plugged into the amp directly. No differences are noted in which power source I use in the following problem when I pluck the string:

The needle shows "sharp" up to 5 or even 10 cents or "1" to "2" hertz in pitch when I first pluck the string... Then as the string I pluck is vibrating, the needle drops to the almost the place where it is supposed to be "tuned", approximately at the point where the string is at about the half way point of the "vibration cycle". The needle on the tuner then becomes very erratic and "dies" to the left as the string is "fading" in volume.

This happens while just plucking the string and not performing any tuning, or touching anything. Do I have a bad tuner? or is it the characteristices of the string, vibration, volume level from the guitar, etc.? Is my tuner "hoked up" properly, being direct from the pick-up?

I can't use this tuner this way, and wonder if I should have got a better quality tuner. It is very difficult to try to get 1/2 hertz accuracy on this tuner since the meter face is so small and the display is so "erratic". My guitar can't be tuned properly, and it doesn't sound right to my ear. I try to tune by ear to eliminate "harmonics" and "beating" but it still doesn't sound in tune. I do have good ears. I use Jeff Newman's E9th tuning frequency's.
1) F# (441.5)
2) D# (439)
3) G# (439)
4) E (442.5)
5) B (442)
6) G# (439)
7) F# (441.5)

E (442.5)
9) B (442)
10) G# (439)
11) E (442.5)
12) B (442)

Please help or give any suggestions if I am doing something wrong. Maybe I have a bad tuner? Or is it just a cheap one not suitable for steel? By the way, I do not use any delay or reverb when tuning. Also, is the external microphone (built in to the tuner) disconnected when cables are plugged into the tuner?

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Regards,

John

Steelin' is a way of life!

My PSG website-Carter SD-12-U, 8p/5k, Nashville 1000

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 28 Nov 2000 10:34 am

Hi John,
I've been using the TU12H for several years and havn't had much trouble with it. I don't run mine in line, just plug it in directly from the guitar when needed. I thought I detected a little tone degragation and clipping when I ran it in line. I also think that running it in line and turned on all the time causes the needle to flip out.
The needle on mine is pretty steady although I have seen the problem you descibe occasionally on my G# string 6. I typically read the note when the needle reaches a "steady state" and that seems to do it. I usually pluck the string repeatedly in 2 or 3 second intervals to keep the signal from decaying. I tune to a modified Newman chart.
I know alot of guys who use that tuner so I don't think it is a quality issue with respect to that model. I have gone through 3 of them. One got dropped too many times and didn't work right anymore (maybe yours had some shock therepy also?), one got lost at a gig, and the one I now use. My point being that I liked it good enough to keep using it. Have you tried it using a six string guitar or another steel to see if the problem persists on other instruments?
Same problem? Maybe you can swap it for another new one at the place you bought it.
I saw a newer model in Musicians Friend that has the needle and also has a digital readout that I thought would be good for tuning to Jeffs chart for example. I'll probably try one of those next. The TU12H costs 69.99 locally although I've heard there are some other chromatic tuners that work good for steel that are less expensive that you might concider. A Forum search for "tuners" would probably bring up the threads with those brands/models.
I don't know for sure about the internal mic but I think it is off when a 1/4" jack is inserted to the input. Also, I use a 9 volt battery almost 100% of the time.
-pb
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 28 November 2000 at 10:35 AM.]

RickRichtmyer · Post by **RickRichtmyer** » 28 Nov 2000 11:26 am

I've been using a TU-12H for years and somewhere along the line it quit working. I disovered that if I plugged into the output instead of the input, it works fine. Dunno why.

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Rick Richtmyer
Good News

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 28 Nov 2000 11:32 am

Thanks! I don't leave it plugged in except when I tune...or try to tune!

Cliff Swanson · Post by **Cliff Swanson** » 28 Nov 2000 1:19 pm

John,

At the risk of opening my mouth and removing any doubt whatsoever as to my working knowledge of physics, I'll offer up an explanation that I received a while ago when asking about the same observation.

When a string is plucked and is initially vibrating at it's greatest intensity, the minute stretching of the string as it moves increases its tension enough that the pitch is sharp to what it eventually "settles" into as the vibrational intensity becomes more characteristic of it's true physical properties. This initial increase in tension explains why the tuner reads the note sharp and then settles to a more constant pitch. I kind of believe this. I don't really know the answer to why a string's pitch doesn't continually decay to more flat as the vibrational intensity becomes less energetic, unless it's just that the relative contribution to pitch at that point becomes more directly related to the tension on the string as a function of its length and the tension wrought by the tuning pegs than by the vibrations. In any case, that's my story and I'm sticking to it

.

BTW, I've observed that this effect becomes especially prominent when the string in question is short and fat. For instance, it's very difficult to accurately tune the low C on a 5-string electric mandolin using a tuner, IMO. I usually end up doing it by ear because I can't get a steady read from the tuner. I think this is because less tension is required to produce a given pitch on a given guage string on a shorter scale instrument as compared to the same guage string on a larger scale (somebody PLEASE correct me if I'm not telling the truth here!). Thus the increase in tension associated by the initial plucking of the low tension string causes a greater increase in its tension as compared to a string under more starting tension, and the lower tension string is thrown sharp.

All of this proves unequivocally that recent advances in astrophysics, quantum mechanics, and chaos theory would never have come to fruition had I been in charge...also, IMO, your tuner is just fine.

Cat

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 28 Nov 2000 1:26 pm

Try using harmonics (24th fret) to tune your lower strings.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 28 Nov 2000 2:35 pm

12th fret harmonics work best for me.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 28 Nov 2000 4:51 pm

I've never noticed that on my TU12-H. I normally use the Low setting for tuning. Sometimes I have to switch it to high for the 3rd (G#) string but that's all.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 28 Nov 2000 5:42 pm

I expirenced the same problem as Rick with one of my boss tuners.I plug into the output jack and it works fine.John try going from the guitar to the output just for kicks it might work.Anyone wanting to sell one of these for cheap E-mail me.

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 28 Nov 2000 8:26 pm

I wonder if they (Boss) mean the "output" of the guitar (input jack) and "input" to the amp (output jack)? Duh! They can't be that stupid! I agree that the string will change pitch based on the vibration "amount", but it just seems so hard to tune accurately.

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 28 Nov 2000 9:59 pm

OK. Mine does NOT work when I plug into the output jack from the axe. Good...But, it did seem ahelluvalot more stable when I didn't plug anything into the output jack going to the amp/pedal. Hummm.

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 28 Nov 2000 10:40 pm

I have the best luck with my tuner on the LOW setting, also. I bought it in 1989. I have a hard time tuning but don't believe it has to do with the qualty of the TU12H !

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Doug Earnest
Zum2000U12,Sierra12,Sho-Bud ProII D10[This message was edited by Doug Earnest on 28 November 2000 at 10:43 PM.]

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 28 Nov 2000 11:00 pm

OK. More experimenting...Seems to be more stable on the LOW setting also. Does anyone else notice more "stability" when nothing is plugged into the output jack?

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 29 Nov 2000 10:10 am

I used mine last night and noted that the tuner doesn't work at all when I plug the guitar into the output jack. I never use the output jack of the tuner so I don't know if that affects anything. The needle stays pretty steady on mine when the string is plucked. I only use the lower setting also.
I set the pitch to 440 but I don't know what that feature does. No matter where I set the pitch button the needle goes to the same spot when I pluck the string. Anyone know what the deal is with the pitch feature?

André Sommer · Post by **André Sommer** » 29 Nov 2000 2:13 pm

Pete,
I have a Boss TU 12( without the"H") and I think if you set it to e.g. 442, it re-callibrates to this pitch. So if you tune a string and the needle is in the middle you have actually tuned it to 442 Hz reference.

André.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 29 Nov 2000 4:54 pm

That's what I thought?!?
But I set the pitch to 440, then tuned a string straight up. Then I set it to 445 (the highest setting I think) and plucked the string, and the needle still went straight up. I would have thought it would be flat since I changed the reference to 445.
Could you guys try this and tell me your results?
Thx,
Pete[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 29 November 2000 at 04:55 PM.]

André Sommer · Post by **André Sommer** » 29 Nov 2000 5:50 pm

OK Pete,
I tried the same as you did but remember I don't know what that "H" stands for..

My needle also goes back up to the previous center position, but... both the arrow shaped red "tuning guide" lights are not lighting simultaneously anymore. They only do when I raise the pitch to where the needle goes up to 445.So the only indication that the tuning is flat is through the lights and not the needle, I guess. Sorry about the mistake in my previous post

André.

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 29 Nov 2000 6:13 pm

"H" stands for "High" and "L" is obviously "Low" which, according to my spec. sheet that came with it, "H" is for tuning the higher frequencys, and "L" the low (11th & 12th string). I can't figure out how to use the "Pitch" function either...

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 29 Nov 2000 6:25 pm

OK, I think I figured it out on mine...The needle ALWAYS "points" to the pitch/ frequency (Hz/Cents) of the string. The pitch "function/buttons" on mine just seems to change what frequency/pitch the red LED arrows "show" when "centered" (i.e., both lights are on) and when both are "centered" then you're on whatever "pitch" you choose; then it's in tune to "zero" on that "pitch". The arrow(s) doesn't seem to correlate with the Pitch Function.