Eminence 12 inch speakers.....

[Dennis Detweiler]

I've been using two BP122 12 inch bass speakers in separate cabinets for a light load carrying option over my two Eminence Wheelhouse 15 inch speakers. I like the sound of both 12's and 15's, except the BP122 speakers (95 db) have to be pushed harder for comparable clean volume with my 201 Quilter Tone Block. So, I looked at specs on Eminence 12 inch speakers and decided to try "one" Swamp Thang (102 db) speaker. It will arrive tomorrow. I will report the outcome.

[Dennis Detweiler]

Review of the Swamp Thing 12":
It's a keeper. I'm using it with a Peavey Session 400 pedal and Quilter 201 Tone Block. The lows and mids are great. The speaker projects the highs more than I like. I tried cutting the treble and presence with the Session pedal, but that had a negative effect on the lows and mids (muddied them). I put my Broughton Low Pass mini pedal in the chain and dialed the frequency down to around 3000hz and voila! This didn't effect the lows and mids. Only that extra 1000hz above 3000hz was cut down. This Swamp Thang speaker has a frequency range of 70 - 4k hz. So, I just had to knock that extra projecting 3k - 4k down to no more than 3k. Some players that like the traditional highs of the early pedal guitars and lap steels may like it as is. It's not muddy at all. Very clean and loud. I'll be getting another one to install in the other 12" cabinet.

[Larry Dering]

Dennis, interesting find. I've been testing a Texas Heat Eminence 12 in a smaller Tommy Huff cabinet using the Quilter 101 as power amp Peavey Session LTD pedal and Boss DD3. I feel it responds better than the TT speaker I previously had in the same cabinet.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I really like the BP122 Eminence bass speakers for tone. Good bottom, mid and high without projecting the ice pick high. The highs drop off after about 3.2k. The only negative is they have 94 db efficiency. It takes a little more than a 200 watt amp to comfortably push two of them when the band gets loud. The Swamp Thang is much more efficient at 102db, but it reproduces the highs to around 5k. I can turn the presence off and lower the treble on the 400 pedal to get the highs where I like them, but it has a negative effect on my mids. The Broughton Low Pass Filter mini pedal is a great tool for taming the highs without negative effect on the mid tone. After I pay my property taxes I'll buy another Swamp Thang for the other 12" cabinet. However, the pair of Eminence 15" Wheelhouse 200 speakers are perfect in all tonal aspects. The 12 inch cabinets are smaller, takes up less space and all that's needed for small clubs.

[Larry Dering]

I rarely use my 15 inch speakers these days. The 12s are working out or my ears are adapting. I have been switching back and forth between the Tonex cabinet and Fender Mustang III 100 going through the return loop with my Tonex pedal. The Mustang speaker sounds incredibly good this way.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I now have two of the 12" Swamp Thang 150w speakers in separate cabinets. I'm using these with the Session 400 pedal and the Broughton Low Pass mini pedal to notch down the high peaks. The Broughton allows me to remain using the treble and presence controls to dial into the mids. The bandwidth of the Session 400 controls is fairly wide and overlap each other. So, this is my lighter and more compact rig and sounds great. The other rig is the Revelation with rack mount Crown stereo power head (Class D) and two 15" cabinets mounted with Eminence Wheelhouse 200 speakers. Also, sounds great and I can dial in both rigs to sound the same. The Rev having more of a Fender Twin sound.

[Dave Grafe]

I'm a JBL guy but willing to try something new, so Tim Marcus sent me a pair of Eminence EM12N's for a Twin Reverb rebuild project I'm working on. They turned out to be an EXCELLENT choice for this amp, it's 15 lbs lighter now than with the previous JBL load and nearly as loud, with superior high end compared to most Eminence products.

[David Higginbotham]

Dave Grafe wrote:

I'm a JBL guy but willing to try something new, so Tim Marcus sent me a pair of Eminence EM12N's for a Twin Reverb rebuild project I'm working on. They turned out to be an EXCELLENT choice for this amp, it's 15 lbs lighter now than with the previous JBL load and nearly as loud, with superior high end compared to most Eminence products.

Dave, I followed your plight with the twin project and being a diehard JBL fan myself...you settled on the EM12N's. How do they compare to JBL's...particularly in the upper range response? Tim Marcus was kind enough to post a response curve for his speaker that was similar to the K120, which was impressive! However, what I'm finding on various forums regarding the EM12N indicates a major dip after 4K while at the same time...opinions are all over the page from lack of bass response to too much bass response and the same complaint on the opposite end of the spectrum. Also that they sound like the K120 to not liking what they were hearing and sounded nowhere near the K120. Subjectivity was screaming loudly as in many cases.

Your ears are superior when it comes to tone and your opinion is valued by many, including yours truly!

As mentioned in the other post...I have a pair of Jupiters that I haven't even taken time to break in as of yet. Are they a true competitor of the JBL? I don't have that answer. Only that they sounded great in the 30 minutes or so I've spent with them. But it would be nice to actually find the TRUE speaker that rivals the vintage original cone JBL. Many have made that claim for years. But thus far they've all been elusive in filling that void, IMHO. Are the EM12N's actually in the park or just flying over the stadium?

Your thoughts?
Dave

[Dave Grafe]

As mentioned in the other post...I have a pair of Jupiters that I haven't even taken time to break in as of yet. Are they a true competitor of the JBL? I don't have that answer. Only that they sounded great in the 30 minutes or so I've spent with them. But it would be nice to actually find the TRUE speaker that rivals the vintage original cone JBL. Many have made that claim for years. But thus far they've all been elusive in filling that void, IMHO. Are the EM12N's actually in the park or just flying over the stadium?

Your thoughts?
Dave

The Jupiters sounded fantastic as replacements for the Oxfords in a client's Pro Reverb, not a JBL sound but really pleasing nonetheless, huge and clear with tight lows and good presence but still gritty enough to give the SF Pro's 45 watts some hair. The amp's owner took it home in ecstasy so they never made it to the Twin.

The Eminence EM12N's sounded a bit peaky and uneven in the highs when paired with the '70's SF circuit Pro Reverb, but with the AB763 "black faced" Twin Reverb they seem quite at home. Not JBL's but also not an impediment to dialing in my joy and 14 lbs lighter as a pair, a worthy consideration when planning to gig with a Twin Reverb amp.

As for high end response the EM12N and K120 are both -10dB at 5kHz, but the JBL is more consistent in getting there and has tighter lows as well. The laws of physics dictate that there is no engineering substitute for the JBL's 4" voice coil, so I'm not ditching my JBL's but the EM12N's are a satisfying fit for this amp and it's intended purpose.

Weights:
Eminence EM12N 6.6 lbs
Jupiter 12LC 9.0 lbs
JBL K120 14.0 lbs

[Tucker Jackson]

I have both an Eminence EM12N and the new Milkman Alnico (JBL K-120 clone), which I only recently got.

The neo speaker is a fraction of the price and weight of the Milkman JBL clone.

Whereas the clone is pretty flat througout the top end... the EM12N has a peak at abour 2.5K, then quickly drops off from there. It sounds somewhat similar to the clone, but with more bite. The mid- and low-end seems about the same to me.

I perfer the silky-smooth top end of the JBL clone because I'm wanting a lush modern tone. But gigged for a long time with the EM12N and loved it. I just had to tamp down that top end slightly with EQ to get my tone (which is admittedly, not the bright tone most steelers are after).

I haven't tried the current Milkman neo speaker, but looking at the frequency curve, it looks to be slightly brighter than the EM12N; it has a second peak at about 3.3.K before dropping off. So, it's more "JBL-like" in that the high end extends to higher frequency. But it's also un-JBL-like in that it does that extension in the form of a peak, rather than just running flatter through that part of the spectrum.

If I was in the market for a JBL-like neo, I would probably look at the Milkman neo rather than the Eminence EM-12N, but you can't go wrong with that one either. Comparing the frequency graphs, there are probably plenty of people that could barely tell the difference between them. The JBL clone is more obviously smoother in the high end than a neo speaker, but even that difference is somewhat subtle.

[Dave Grafe]

If I was in the market for a JBL-like neo, I would probably look at the Milkman neo rather than the EM-12N, but you can't go wrong with that one either.

That was my original intention, Tim shipped me a pair but the frames are just enough wider that they won't both fit into the 70's SF Pro Reverb or Twin Reverb that I had in mind for them. I returned them and he sent me the pair of EM12N's that I ended up putting in the TR.

[Tucker Jackson]

Yessir. Tim has installed a lot of EM12N speakers in his Milkman amps in the past. I never heard anyone here on the Fourm complain about the tone. He wouldn't sell you one now if it wasn't a killer speaker.