3rd string keeps breaking

[Josephus Vroomans]

Last week my 3rd string (G#, 011P) broke. The SIT stringset is a couple months old.
I tried replacing it with, and broke three strings in a row. All SIT 011P strings.
They break near the tuning post. What can I do about this?
My steel guitar is a Stage One, which I've had over 10 years. Never had this problem before.

[Sam Inglis]

Are you holding the B pedal down as you bring the string up to pitch?

[Jim Cooley]

Check for a burr around the hole in that tuning post. If you find one, try removing it with some very fine grade sandpaper or emery cloth. Have you lubricated the nut roller shaft recently? Loosen all the strings and make sure the nut rollers rotate freely on the roller shaft. Put a very small drop of light lubricant (I like TriFlow) where each roller contacts the roller shaft. Rotate each nut roller just a little, maybe a half turn, then retune the strings back up to pitch. It is also possible that you have strings from a defective production run. Try a different brand of the same gauge string. Some might advise you to switch to a heavier gauge string. That might help in some cases, but is only a band aid fix. String gauge is usually not the problem, especially if you are using the guitar builder's recommended gauge. Since you haven't had this problem in ten years, it is not likely the cause of your problem anyway.

[Larry Phleger]

I had the same problem on my Mullen PRP U12. I discussed this with the late Herby Wallace. He suggested that I wind about 12 wraps around the capstan when I replaced the string. I've been doing that ever since, and have had no further problems with excessive third string breakage.

[Roger Crawford]

Go to the Mullen website, they have a great tutorial about the third string. I do it that way and have never broken a third string. You might consider going to a 12 gauge, too.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Check the edges of the cross hole in the key capstan for burrs, A burr can cause problems.

Cut the string at least 2 keys, Past 3rd string capstan.
Wind the string tight each wrap laying smooth against the previous wrap till the string is wound past the hole and on solid smooth shaft.

Be careful, A fresh string breaking is dangerous.
Happy Steelin.

[Josephus Vroomans]

Thanks everyone. Yesterday I put on a new string, making sure there's enough wraps winding around the capstan. So far so good...

[Donny Hinson]

For that third string, you need at least 7 or 8 wraps on the tuning post.

[Rich Cottle]

Alot of people including Jimmy Day have switched to D-9th , solves the problem and not too many people will want to play your guitar

[Damien Odell]

I had the same issue with SIT, went through more than 20. I've since changed brands and no issue. I believe SIT had a bad run of inferior strings and they're probably still out there.

[Alan Murphy]

I am having the same problem on multiple different brand steels using SIT and GHS

I have just ordered some 11 thou D'Addigios NYXL They have a high carbon content and I believe about 30% higher tensile strength which should really help.

Carbon steel will rust easier but they are tin plated, and the recommendation is to use a lint cloth to wipe down the strings before and after playing

Paul Franklin uses a 12 thou in his D'Addagio signature set, so an 11 thou should be even less prone to breakages

I will report back here in a few days my experience

[Dave Mudgett]

To diagnose string breaking problems, it is absolutely essential to know where the string is breaking. My take, in general:

If it's breaking at the keyhead, I'd be looking at more string winds

If it's breaking at the roller nut, I'd be looking at a friction or burrs at the roller nut, or possibly making sure there's straight string pull at the nut

If it's breaking at the changer finger, I'd be looking for irregularities in the changer finger.

If a reasonably new string is breaking in the middle of the string or at the ball-end, I'd definitely be trying a different brand/batch of strings

None of this is guaranteed - strings can break for various random reasons. And if you're playing a lot, two months is a long time to leave a 3rd string 11-gauge on there without the expectation of breakage.

On this:

Paul Franklin uses a 12 thou in his D'Addagio signature set, so an 11 thou should be even less prone to breakages

Not necessarily. Remember that although the tension of a 12-gauge string is higher (tuned to the same pitch), the tensile strength is also, roughly, proportionally higher. So they are approximately a wash, unless you push the tension way into the nonlinear zones for tension and/or tensile strength. I deal with slide guitar 1st strings at very high tensions that push these limits sometimes, and I never exactly know which is gonna be better, breakage-wise, between an 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5, or 12 plain string. But if the issue is a burr or something else that is weakening the string, I usually find that the heavier string works better, as counter-intuitive as that may sound at first blush.

[Josephus Vroomans]

My G# strings were breaking at the stringhead. I think more winds solved the problem. And the new string I used was not a SIT but a D'Addario PL011 High Carbon Steel.

[Dan Cope]

I believe SIT had a bad run of inferior strings and they're probably still out there.

I agree. I’ve used them for years and had no trouble until a few months ago when I went through several that broke almost immediately or after just a few hours of playing.

[Eric OHara]

I used to have a similar issue with an old Bud. If going to a 0.012 doesn’t solve it ( and there are no burrs) try going lighter to a 0.010. The lighter string worked for me at the time. EO

[Jonathan Gregg]

As others have mentioned, you need a lot of winds - 7 or 8. I went through period of incessant breaking that did not stop until I increased the winds.

[John Hyland]

I’m wondering why more winds help. My guess is due the fact that the string moves away from the centre of the hole and closer to the round part of the post where there is less of a sharper stress point compared to the hole.

[Dave Mudgett]

I’m wondering why more winds help. My guess is due the fact that the string moves away from the centre of the hole and closer to the round part of the post where there is less of a sharper stress point compared to the hole.

More winds moves the string breakoff point away from the edge of the hole, which is sharp. Of course, if the string breakoff point is right at the edge of the hole, the stress from string tension is felt right there, and that can cause a string near the breaking point to break.

Beyond that, a lot of winds between the breakoff point and the edge of the hole reduces the stress at the edge of the hole - the winds act as a buffer. Remember that the actual stress from string tension is being applied at the takeoff point.

Of course, depending on the geometry, I use the number of winds as a way of lining up the breakoff point with the roller nut to get as straight a string pull as possible. This especially helps staying in tune. But it also reduces stress at the roller nut, which can also break the string. Any extra stress at any point along the string is an invitation for string breakage.

Let me also add that a string tuned to G#4 or A4 (as is the E9 3rd string) is pretty close to the theoretical tensile strength limit for unwound guitar strings at pretty much any gauge that is anywhere near the ballpark of 0.010-0.12 inches. Check out this calculator that not only computes string tension, but also estimates how close you are to the breaking point, using tables of tensile strength for steel strings. https://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_tension_from_size.htm.

As I mentioned above, that percentage doesn't vary much relative to the exact string gauge. It computes at around 86%, plus or minus a bit. 85% for 0.010, 86% for 0.011, and 87% for 0.0115 and 0.012. I believe "other factors" are more significant than these slight differences. For example, a burr on the changer or in the roller nut, being too close to the tuner hole, or an imperfection in the string or the winding at the ball. Also, remember that this calculation is based on typical tensile strength charts for steel wire. The upshot is that the 3rd string on E9 pedal steel is definitely pushing it - I know of very few guitar players that play strings this close to the breaking point. I do it sometimes for slide guitar when I want to tune to high Open G or Open A, a la David Lindley. But I generally do that on a short-scale guitar - something comparable to David's 22.5" or so Ricky Bakelite B6. I can generally get Open G to work on, let's say, a 24.25" Les Paul, but A is pretty hopeless on a long-scale guitar. And I have the bloody hands from snapped strings to prove it, LOL.