ANOTHER question regarding finding my first pedal steel: Do all steels pretty much stay in tune or are some better at it

[David DeLoach]

As I hope to acquire my first pedal steel, I'm thinking about all the things I'll need to consider when selecting an instrument.

One thing that comes to mind is how well a pedal steel STAYS in tune with the pedals & knee levers constantly changing string tension.

Do all steels tend to retain there tuning while being played, or do some tend to drift out of tune after being played awhile? I don't often see pedal steel players retuning during a gig, so I'm thinking/hoping this is not an issue.

If I was looking at a steel to purchase, how would I check out it's ability to stay in tune? Tune it up, and then activate the pedals and knee levers several times and then check the tuning again?

Thanks for any advice!

David

[Dave Grafe]

All professional grade instruments are tuning-stable at any fixed temperature. The best ones for the most part stay in tune with themselves when temperature changes cause the center to drift.

[Bob Carlucci]

I must disagree with our friend dave.. I agree that most steels will stay in tune at a constant temperature, IF they aren't played.. That all goes out the window with temp changes.. Try playing a gig out in the sunshine some day and you'll see what I mean.., I will agree that many steels ,maybe even most steels will stay in tune even with hard play. However, there are some that just won't stay in tune, especially older guitars when played.. Many of us at some point have owned a steel that just drifted out of tune and had to be tweaked several times during a gig.. Nowadays the guitars are more precise, no doubt, and I agree 100%,, However, in my many decades of playing steel I have owned and played some well built pedal steels that simply would not stay in tune to my satisfaction. In my own experience, I have had more problem with Sho bud guitars than most other brands, .. Some say they have never had a problem with a Sho Bud, others like me, had tons of problems.. I think any modern pro model guitar will be tuning stable, but again, older designs, especially after they get some wear, might have some issues staying in tune.. A good guitar is a good guitar, but a very well known pedal steel guitar technician/engineer once said to me in a phone conversation-"Some pieces of wood have NO business residing in a pedal steel guitar"...This thread may generate a few arguments, but again, some of us on this forum have had good, well made,pro level pedal steel guitars that were simply not as tuning stable as they should be, especially in years gone by.... bob

[Dave Grafe]

A steel that will not stay in tune when played is NOT a "professional grade instrument." Disagree all you want but I have owned and performed with 3 Sho-Buds, 3 Emmons push-pulls, a Fessenden and three Zumsteels, plus work on countless other makes. I can tell you in detail how each behaves when the sun hits them, when they are played hard, sit unplayed, when strings are new and when they are over a year old. Temperature changes affect them all but not in the same ways, and unless the strings are very new hard playing alone has never caused a good, well maintained guitar to go out of tune on my watch.

[Bob Carlucci]

we'll have to agree to disagree dave.. Glad you have never owned a guitar that would go out of tune but many of us have especially older guitars. Years ago on a similar thread with lots of arguments on tuning stability or lack therof, our late friend and forum leader Bob Lee sent me a PM stating these words-"I've never met a Sho Bud I could keep in tune".. I have had MSA guitars that drifted as well, although most of my MSA guitars stayed in tune very well. There was a time years ago, when Marrs, and others totally rebuilt the pull mechanisms with redesigned parts and added subframes to aid in tuning stability on Buds.. They didn't make those parts to make the guitars shinier.. It was done for playability as well as tunability.. You know your pedal steels, I get that, but a blanket statement that "pro level guitars don't go out of tune"??. Yeah I don't buy it.. They are WAY better today than ever before, but in years past I have personally owned a few that had to be attacked too often with an endplate wrench for me to bother with.. Matter of fact I have sold a few pedal steel guitars dirt cheap and told the buyers that the guitars were not all that tuning stable. A lot of those older guitars are still out there, and I bet a lot of them still drift, but guys love the tone, look and feel and just deal with it.. I know there were times in my musical career where I did exactly that.

[Bob Carlucci]

to the OP-.. If you are concerned about tuning stability, your best bet is to get something new, or a later model used guitar, and avoid older, more "vintage" steels.. As technology advanced and machining got better and more consistent, pedal steel guitars got much better at being tuning stable.. I think in your case, you might want to ask here first about any specific steel you might want to buy.. Avoid any steel with a lot of obvious wear, or a lot of dirt/corrosion on the underside, only because it means it might have a lot of wear and tear.. Anything you buy new will be fine, and probably 95% of whats on the used market will be fine, but as stated, there are exceptions out there. They members here are a wealth of information, and will help with good advice when you get close to making a purchase...

[Jon Voth]

A GFI I used to have stayed in tune better than a couple Mullen G2s I have now; that's my only experience. Maybe it was the metal frame. Either one I would usually need to retune after the 1st or 2nd set.

[Dennis Montgomery]

Over the years I've owned a mid 70's Sho-Bud D10, 80's Dekley S10, 80's MCI SD10, 2005 Carter SD10, Fender 400 and 2017 Mullen G2 SD12: The Mullen & Fender were by far the best at staying in tune (and ironically, also being the easiest to tune and change copedents on as well). Then again, I'm a studio rat and don't play gigs in crazy weather or ever had a hot sun pounding down on the instrument for hours before playing so take that into account

[Mark Hepler]

Replace lousy stock-tuners with Schallers or such: major improvement.

Emmons guitars (new or refurbished) stay in tune very well, budget permitting.

[Fred Treece]

With significant changes in temperature or direct sun exposure over the course of a 2+ hour gig outdoors, I would be surprised if any guitar stayed in tune.

Under stable conditions and with strings broken in, my Stage One, Carter, and Williams have all stayed in tune.

[Lee Baucum]

With significant changes in temperature or direct sun exposure over the course of a 2+ hour gig outdoors, I would be surprised if any guitar stayed in tune.

Under stable conditions and with strings broken in, my Stage One, Carter, and Williams have all stayed in tune.

In addition to "direct sun exposure", playing directly under an a/c vent that is constantly switching between being off, to blasting very cold air directly on to the top of the guitar can wreak havoc on the tuning of the strings, all of which are reacting in different degrees of "out-of-tuneness" (technical term!). In this case, I believe the guitar body is staying pretty stable. The strings...not so much.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Your best bet for a stable guitar are professional model name brands. Zum, Mullen, Williams that I've played along with several others I would consider as stable as is possible. I haven't really found any differences among those related to environment. Climate related issues affect all stringed instruments in some way.

I'll add that even among different guitars of the same configuration and build, individual guitars can vary one to the other.

I've only had one pedal steel guitar out of a dozen or so that had real tuning issues. That company is out of business now and very few guitars around.