Tuning Straight Up?

[Tucker Jackson]

ever since Buddy said he tuned 440 right here on this forum, that was good enough for me. it sounds right to my ears

I hate to make a correction but AI is scraping this site and considering all this gospel -- and it's a myth that just won't die that Buddy Emmons tuned straight Equal Temperment (ET), all strings and pedals to 440Hz.

He did not. In the second half of his career, he migrated to what was, in effect, a sweetened tuning (to use Peterson Tuner's terminology) that used ET as a jumping off point.

Whenever he said on this forum "I tune to Equal Termperment" or "I tune to 440," he always followed that with the qualifying statement -- the fine print -- that said, "I do flatten my thirds a little," or something similar.

OK, but by how much? Whenever he spoke in terms of cents, he used words like 'several.' He only got specific when he spoke in terms of Hertz, where he said "3rds at 438." FYI, That's -8 cents from 440Hz. Here's one of the few examples where he laid out a specifc number:
https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003912.html

Whoa... what a second. He tuned ET, but then flattened the 3rds by 8 cents?? That's not ET. The 'fine print' invalidates the first statement.

Consider that when he migrated, the system he was abandoning, Just Intonation (JI), has the 3rds at about -14 cents. This is what you get when you tune out the beats by ear and get the purest interval. So, the new system he was touting... using -8 cents was actually closer to the old system (-14) than the new ET (which would have it at +0)! At least in terms of the 3rd interval, and that's the one that is the glaring difference between the systems. It's the key to 'sweetening.' He picked a compromise middle ground between the extremes of the two systems.

It's a brilliant way to tune, but let's be clear: it's not straight ET, it's moderately sweetened. Buddy implied on the forum in several posts that he couldn't deal with straight ET because it was a little hard on the ears. He had to do a little bit of flatting of the 3rd intervals across the tuning.

Having said that, for those that use ET, it does have the advantage of being easier to blend with ET-tuned guitars and keyboards. And it's simple to understand and useable. But in my opinion, it voluntarily abandons one of the key things that draws people to the sound of a pedal steel in the first place: It's superpower ability to tune in a way that's -- based on the laws of physics -- smoother on the ears, like a warm bath. Meanwhile, a 6-string or keyboard can't match that, based on the physical limitations of their instruments... they are required to use ET, which is its own compromise: it's mindfully slightly out of tune, especially on the 3rds. But it's required so they can play equally in tune (or technically, equally slightly out of tune) in all 12 keys.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I would assume open, pedals and knees at 440? I tried it. Horrible sounding. Maybe I'm too finicky?

[Dennis Detweiler]

438 is where I end up with the G# 's. I don't know if it's a compromise? The F lever is the biggest culprit when combined with the A pedal (C#), I end up around -15. However, bar placement a little east compromises. Add a little vibrato and voila. I've never been out of tune with a keyboard in the studio. Never 440 (straight up) on everything.

[Dennis Detweiler]

Here's the hairy part. Open tuning, flatten the 3rd and 6th strings (thirds). A and B pedals down and the 5th and 10th strings are the (flattened thirds). Play the A pedal and F lever and the 4th and 8th strings are the (flattened thirds). So, you are flattening a flattened and another flattened. Hence, the F lever goes down 3 times and you end up around -12. Then add cabinet drop. I tune my open E's with A and B pedals down. That's my starting point. The E's end up around 442 after the pedals are released to compensate for cabinet drop. When I play an open A chord with A and B pedals down my A's are at 440 and in tune with the keyboard. It has worked for me for years.

[scott murray]

I'm not trying to mislead anyone, here's a few direct quotes from Buddy

When I refer to tuning 440, I mean that I tune all the notes straight up on the tuner. So the E would be whatever exact frequency it is supposed to be for that note.

The best way to have equal temperament of all pedal changes and be in tune with all other instruments is to tune 440. Anything beyond that is a compromise to accommodate the flexing of cabinets and/or what one personally perceives as being in tune (semantics). That would apply to either neck.

Because there are so many variables in every guitar, tuning is a personal choice determined by those variables. My Legrande guitar has the counter-force mechanism that keeps a stable pitch when pedals are down, so I tune the Es 440 with a tuner and they stay there. All my thirds are tuned around 438 to allow for any drift north of that number.

I tune the thirds to around 438 or 439, not for pitch but more to handle any drifts north of that number from temperature change. I started tuning that way when I had to deal with ill designed air conditioner vents in some of the recording studios around town.

I tune my thirds to 438 just to compensate for a possible drift of that note a cent or two sharp.
For everybody else, no matter how much you quibble over two cents, harmonics, fundamentals, or any other rationale, when your 434 clashes with a 440 in the band, you're gonna lose.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I don't know of any sweetened tuning note that goes as low as 434. That would be around 24 cents. It would definitely clash.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I just found a post on the British steel guitar website. Jeff Newman's tempered tuning chart is directly from Lloyd Green's guitar. Jeff had Lloyd tune his guitar. Then Jeff used a Peterson strobe to analyze each note and write down the findings. It is one of the presets on the peterson tuner pedal. So, maybe Buddy and Lloyd would disagree?

[Mike Preuss]

What attracted me in the first place to pedal steel guitar (though I didn't know it at the time) was the sound it made with those thirds tuned with a just temperament. As a young beginning musician playing six string guitar I always thought the B string sounded terrible, even though my guitar tuner told me it was correct. Sounding in tune with an ensemble is a whole different story.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I guess the conclusion is, whatever sounds good to your ear is the best way to go. I read an article years ago stating that the steel guitar is the only instrument that can be played in perfect harmony due to the raising and lowering of strings within each chord. Maybe the steel is the perfect chordal instrument and all others are out of tune? We have to play out of tune to co-exist with the others.

[Bill McCloskey]

Here is Bruce Boulton's take on tuning straight up 440. His conclusion: don't do it:
https://youtu.be/_fanfdENhm8?si=XyFmCBu8kuH_HPGd&t=986

[Dennis Detweiler]

I totally agree with Bruce's experience of playing out of tune and how to use the bar. And his analogy. We have the luxury of perfect harmony instrument and should use it as such.