Recommendations for my *second* steel (graduating from Stage One)

[Rob Morrison]

Hi everyone,

I've been playing pedal steel for about three years, and have gigged and recorded with my Stage One. It's terrific and (relatively) lightweight. But I'm looking to upgrade to something a little more substantial, both in terms of tone, as well as what it can mechanically do. Ideally, I'm looking for an S-10 (or SD-10) that's a 3x5...the Stage One is a 3x4. I've also had issues keeping the Stage One raises and lowers in tune (maybe this is just something all steelers must endure, or maybe it's a weak point of the Stage One, I don't know).

Any recommendations for something that won't entirely break the bank? Of course I'd love a Zum or Mullen, but I just can't plunk down $5k+ on a guitar right now (or maybe ever). Buying used is probably still the way to go (I got my Stage One from the classifieds here).

I'm curious what folks -- especially those who might consider themselves intermediate, gigging musicians -- are using. I know plenty of players hold the Stage One in reasonably high esteem, so I don't want to get something that winds up being weirdly not as good, despite not being a "student model."

Many thanks in advance!

[John Sluszny]

Zum Encore 4X5

[Bob Carlucci]

Best value ?.. Probably a clean used Carter, or a maybe lightly used MSA Classic.. Buds/Emmons, and most other brands are getting crazy prices on the used market these days.. MSA Classic guitars are bulletproof, they don't wear out, parts are readily available and reasonable... The undercarriage design is classic and solid even if outdated . Carter guitars are light, well built, sound great.. so good that a lot of top pros used them at some point in their careers.. They play fantastic, are relatively cheap on the used market, and you see them fairly often.. Dekley guitars are also usually a good deal when you see them, but they are kind of heavy.. Bulletproof undercarriage similar to MSA.. BMI is another good brand thats solid, well built, play and sound good and are reasonable on the used market... BMI is still in business, so parts are a breeze.. Honorable mention?- GFI, Desert Rose, Fessenden, all good guitars, that are pro level but not outrageously priced... bob

[Richard Alderson]

Congratulations on the upgrade ! You might want to consider keeping the Stage One as a light weight back up guitar........ Its re-sale value is so modest, you' ll never get another similar quality guitar for the same money, and its use value as a light weight back up could prove enormous.... just a thought...YMMV.....

[Douglas Schuch]

Hey Rob,

Before upgrading, really think if you absolutely do not want a double neck. I love playing C6, and at this point I probably use it more than E9 with my band, but I love swing music, and C6 makes that relatively easy (and fun, for me, anyway) to play.

If you are sure you want to stick with E9, then I think the suggestion of getting an Encore makes a lot of sense. The main thing you get with that, or any pro-level single neck is more stuff on your right knees, plus a vertical, and the flexibility to change things around if you want to try something different.

The other model I might be looking for is the Rittenberry - I've noticed a couple of really nice D-10's that had attractive prices on them that did not move very quickly. Assuming an single neck would be similar, it seemed like a lot of steel for the money, and they are still being made. That's nice if you ever need any parts - an extra pedal assembly maybe, or maybe just some springs or something.

Going one step further, any reputable steel that is still being made that looks to be in good shape and has the number of pedals/levers you need and can be set up to your desire coped would be worth considering.

Those are my suggestions, anyway.

[Lee Baucum]

viewtopic.php?p=3133052

Nashville steel guitarist Leo Grassl (Forum member, too!) owns three Stage One guitars.

Hopefully, some of the links I posted are still working.

[Rob Morrison]

Hey Rob,

Before upgrading, really think if you absolutely do not want a double neck. I love playing C6, and at this point I probably use it more than E9 with my band, but I love swing music, and C6 makes that relatively easy (and fun, for me, anyway) to play.

If you are sure you want to stick with E9, then I think the suggestion of getting an Encore makes a lot of sense. The main thing you get with that, or any pro-level single neck is more stuff on your right knees, plus a vertical, and the flexibility to change things around if you want to try something different.

The other model I might be looking for is the Rittenberry - I've noticed a couple of really nice D-10's that had attractive prices on them that did not move very quickly. Assuming an single neck would be similar, it seemed like a lot of steel for the money, and they are still being made. That's nice if you ever need any parts - an extra pedal assembly maybe, or maybe just some springs or something.

Going one step further, any reputable steel that is still being made that looks to be in good shape and has the number of pedals/levers you need and can be set up to your desire coped would be worth considering.

Those are my suggestions, anyway.

Hey Doug, great to hear from you! And many thanks to everyone else who's chimed in. Doug you raise a strong point re: the C6 neck. For a few months I was convinced I wanted a D-10. I've played 6-string lap steel in C6 tuning about twice as long as I've played E9 psg, and while I know that 10-string C6 tuning on psg would not be identical, there must be some overlaps. Then again, I'm gigging in NYC and while I have a car, I do have to deal with a third-floor walkup before and after every rehearsal/gig. So now I'm thinking of getting something that's a tonal upgrade from the Stage One, a little more stable tuning-wise, and with some mechanical capabilities the Stage One doesn't have (like a LKV). Not to mention a D-10 would really stretch my wallet right now. But like I said, I'm C6-curious, and haven't ruled it out.

[Rob Morrison]

Best value ?.. Probably a clean used Carter, or a maybe lightly used MSA Classic.. Buds/Emmons, and most other brands are getting crazy prices on the used market these days.. MSA Classic guitars are bulletproof, they don't wear out, parts are readily available and reasonable... The undercarriage design is classic and solid even if outdated . Carter guitars are light, well built, sound great.. so good that a lot of top pros used them at some point in their careers.. They play fantastic, are relatively cheap on the used market, and you see them fairly often.. Dekley guitars are also usually a good deal when you see them, but they are kind of heavy.. Bulletproof undercarriage similar to MSA.. BMI is another good brand thats solid, well built, play and sound good and are reasonable on the used market... BMI is still in business, so parts are a breeze.. Honorable mention?- GFI, Desert Rose, Fessenden, all good guitars, that are pro level but not outrageously priced... bob

These are terrific recommendations, thanks Bob!

[Bobby D. Jones]

While looking for a new to you guitar, You may want to consider a S12 E9th/B6th Universal tuning also. If you want to play some 6th tuning too.
Some say you give up some music capability when going from a D10 E9th/C6th to S12 E9th/B6th Universal.

I know you give up weight to carry up and down steps.
A MSA D10 Classic in its case weighs 85lb.
A GFI S12 Universal Ultra in its case weighs 49lb.
Good Luck in your hunt for an upgrade, Happy Steelin.

[David W.D. McCormick]

Best value ?.. Probably a clean used Carter, or a maybe lightly used MSA Classic.. Buds/Emmons, and most other brands are getting crazy prices on the used market these days.. MSA Classic guitars are bulletproof, they don't wear out, parts are readily available and reasonable... The undercarriage design is classic and solid even if outdated . Carter guitars are light, well built, sound great.. so good that a lot of top pros used them at some point in their careers.. They play fantastic, are relatively cheap on the used market, and you see them fairly often.. Dekley guitars are also usually a good deal when you see them, but they are kind of heavy.. Bulletproof undercarriage similar to MSA.. BMI is another good brand thats solid, well built, play and sound good and are reasonable on the used market... BMI is still in business, so parts are a breeze.. Honorable mention?- GFI, Desert Rose, Fessenden, all good guitars, that are pro level but not outrageously priced... bob

I play a Carter and love it! It’s not flashy but stays in tune, plays smooth, has great tone, is less than 55lbs in the case, and has an expandable 3x5 setup. I think it’s a great value option especially if you’re hauling it around.

[K Maul]

Williams, GFI, or EXCEL and the new SHOJI (both from Japan) S-12s, all weigh well under 50lbs and are some of the best built steels you can find. Well worth considering for an upgrade.

[Bobby D. Jones]

For your situation, Having to move equipment up and down steps. I suggest, Stay away from MSA S10 Classics. A MSA Classic S10 in its case weighs about 65 lb.
I gigged a MSA Classic S10 until about 2018, I turned 75 years young, And started lightening my gear. Went to GFI S12 Ultra, 49lb in case, Tone Block 202 and 15" light weight speaker and cabinet 24lb. Still looking for a lighter seat.