New steel - fingers issue

[D. Scheindlin]

Looking at these pictures of the OP (D. Scheindlin) I first wondered if they'd really used potmetal fingers like Sho-Bud used in later models, much to the displeasure of most owners, may I add.
But then, Micah's pictures seem to suggest that they are CNC milled from some material which can chip.

I could take Micah's but I must join the sentiment here, that D. Scheindlin's "New" PSG's fingers don't even look used, because the random marks and uneven indentations which seem to have been polished over are not something we've seen on even a bandstand workhorse from 50 years ago.
Again, the marks are a-typical of any manufacturing process I would know, unless someone would go about making fingers our of some scrap material with a hack saw and a rough file (and maybe even a little hammer to give it that final "touch") by hand one by one.

Now, in both cases, I doubt that it will audibly affect the tone. I for one, just posted recently that I don't find mirror polished changer-finger surfaces desirable because it allows string to move sideways on typically a 1/4" behind the tangent point... a phenomenon I feel sucks dynamics and sustain out the strings vibrating energy and may only "return the favor" by feeding buzz-noises into the mix.
That being said, were this the NEW guitar I would unpack with excitement and anticipation on my front porch... it'd be disappointed and would most likely return it for a refund and look for more satisfaction elsewhere.

I brakes my heart to see this not only feeling for the customers, but I have the highest of respects for Gene Fields long history of innovations. While I was never attracted to the cosmetic design of the GFI, I've inspected many at shows Decades ago, and never seem to have seen anything but a mechanically precise and well machined instrument.

... J-D.

Thanks J D. The GFI fingers on Ultra and Expo (what I bought) are stainless steel. Bob said the markings happened while the slots (I guess for the string ball end) were being cut
and the person doing the sawing didn’t realize until the batch was finished. That said, I think the bigger mistake was putting them on the guitar anyway.

I did consider just sending it back and requesting a refund. But I’ve played a lot of steels and GFI just fits me best, feels best to me. And they are well engineered and well made, and as mentioned, what happened with this one is certainly not typical of what comes out of their factory. Disappointing experience for sure, but I trust Bob to make things right.

[J D Sauser]

Thanks J D. The GFI fingers on Ultra and Expo (what I bought) are stainless steel. Bob said the markings happened while the slots (I guess for the string ball end) were being cut
and the person doing the sawing didn’t realize until the batch was finished. That said, I think the bigger mistake was putting them on the guitar anyway.

I did consider just sending it back and requesting a refund. But I’ve played a lot of steels and GFI just fits me best, feels best to me. And they are well engineered and well made, and as mentioned, what happened with this one is certainly not typical of what comes out of their factory. Disappointing experience for sure, but I trust Bob to make things right.

I don't want to put oil in the fire, but I can't picture them using a "Saw" to cut the slots on the fingers.. especially in stainless steel. I wonder how they make their changer fingers thou!
The more I look at the marks, the less I can come up with an explanation what process may have caused these marks. Only stamped parts are prone to have these "rips" (the scissors is a good example and it does not affect anything but cosmetics on these parts). One thing I am pretty sure, from the gloss and glare, that they polished them and thus should have seen that they were sub-par. There are so many steps in handling changer fingers down to finally stringing, there's no way that went un-observed.

Again, I doubt it affects tone or breaks strings (since burrs have been polished down).
It's for sure an eyesore and frankly disrespectful.

But if you can enjoy her, maybe she just sounds wonderful, maybe even better than any other... then all is good.

... J-D.

[Bobby D. Jones]

The GFI Expo and Ultra fingers are made by the sintered metal process. By the process of powdered metal is formed in a die, Then heated and bonded together. The same process that Tungsten Carbide cutting bits are made by.
It is such a intense process, I would say it is an outside contract. And the suppliers quality control is not up to standard.
It looks like with the 3 fingers with the little dimple in same spot, Looks like, Some foreign objects got loose in the die. The 24 fingers in the 2 S12 Ultras I have are very smooth.
I get what looks like string groves in the fingers when I remove strings for a change strings. When you rub the fingers with a cloth, The so called string groves disappear.

[J D Sauser]

The GFI Expo and Ultra fingers are made by the sintered metal process. By the process of powdered metal is formed in a die, Then heated and bonded together. The same process that Tungsten Carbide cutting bits are made by.
It is such a intense process, I would say it is an outside contract. And the suppliers quality control is not up to standard.
It looks like with the 3 fingers with the little dimple in same spot, Looks like, Some foreign objects got loose in the die. The 24 fingers in the 2 S12 Ultras I have are very smooth.
I get what looks like string groves in the fingers when I remove strings for a change strings. When you rub the fingers with a cloth, The so called string groves disappear.

Interesting! Yes, that process involves heat and extreme pressure... it only can be done by specialized industry.
Maybe why I first wondered if they had used "pot-metal" parts (which I could not believe myself).

Thanks!... J-D.

[D. Scheindlin]

I don't want to put oil in the fire, but I can't picture them using a "Saw" to cut the slots on the fingers.. especially in stainless steel.

Beats me, but Bob says they saw the slots.

Again, I doubt it affects tone or breaks strings (since burrs have been polished down).

My third string is super zingy, almost sitar-like. I’d have to think that’s being caused by this issue. I repositioned the string slightly on the finger and it improved some. So my hope is that when they replace the fingers and it comes back home that problem is gone.

[

[Larry Dering]

My GFI Ultra SD 10 4x5 was built in 2022 and the fingers are perfectly polished and smooth. It plays great and sounds wonderful.

[J D Sauser]

I don't want to put oil in the fire, but I can't picture them using a "Saw" to cut the slots on the fingers.. especially in stainless steel.

Beats me, but Bob says they saw the slots.

Again, I doubt it affects tone or breaks strings (since burrs have been polished down).

My third string is super zingy, almost sitar-like. I’d have to think that’s being caused by this issue. I repositioned the string slightly on the finger and it improved some. So my hope is that when they replace the fingers and it comes back home that problem is gone.

3rd E9th strings are prone to issues, sorry to hear that besides the cosmetic aspect you are having tonal issues too. That would be the final straw for me.

I am glad to now understand that they are not only sending you new fingers, but are taking her back to replace the fingers which usually requieres completely de-rodding the whole guitar in order to loosen the changer block to be able to pull out the shaft, drop all scissors and fingers and replace the fingers.
On these guitars, similar to Sho-Buds, (E)MCI, Carters and few others, which have a "rib" in between each string's changer scissor-finger-assembly, IF one could pull out the shaft to the side and push another one from the other end in order to not "drop" all pairs, one MAY be able to replace one finger after the other without going thru a total tear down. I don't know that this is possible on any of the other guitars mentioned above, and I've never worked on a GFI, but I doubt that is feasible without a total tear-down on them either.

Some births are a bit more problematic, nevertheless the "Baby" may come out beautiful anyways and I hope she will be a success well worth all the trouble.

... J-D.

[D. Scheindlin]

Let’s hope so!

[Bobby D. Jones]

Since GFI has a Limited Lifetime Warranty on the guitar, I would contact and deal directly with GFI on the problem.

Since the parts are molded in a die during the sintered process. Putting the string slot in the mold may be to expensive or actually impossible to do. So they in house slot them. They may have something like a chop saw set up with a jig or fixture to accurately cut the slot. With an abrasive blade.
Who ever ran the slotting machine, Should have checked the fingers finish before slotting, And informed his boss of the quality finish problem.

From the pictures the guitar is a S10. The fingers can be replaced or removed without pulling the Changer.

I bought a GFI S12 Ultra, That had been passed around and treated badly. I removed string 4-5 fingers, Done some work smoothing them and traded them with strings 10 and 11 fingers. To cure my problem.

A .374 X 6" rod, And a hook to unhook the Lower return springs, Is only tools needed on a Single neck. WARNING, Just Unhook The Lower Return Spring. Do Not Touch The Tension Adjustment Screws. They should be, Already properly adjusted.

[D. Scheindlin]

Thanks Bobby. Already been in touch with Bob. He’s going to let me know when they’ve got some new fingers and I’ll send it on back to him for replacement.

[D. Scheindlin]

I just wanted to close this thread out on a high note. Bob let me know a couple weeks ago that they made some new fingers. I shipped the steel back and got it back in a week with the new fingers installed. Everything with the guitar is now great and just what I would expect from a brand new GFI.

As I said before, mistakes happen and while disappointing, Bob and GFI made it right.

[Dale McPherson]

I’d ask for my money back and move on.

[Michael Hill]

There's no way that's ok. The takeoff point of the string needs to be perfectly smooth.

[D. Scheindlin]

I’d ask for my money back and move on.

Why? GFI fixed it and I have the guitar I wanted.