home made or modified parts pedal - worth upgrading?

[Frank Brown]

Hi folks - i am totally new here so please excuse my ignorance of all things pedal. - i have been playing a Carter Starter for 3 years or so and wanted to step up in terms of instrument quality. [Being in the UK, on a low wage and with a house and family to support has proved challenging in terms of being able to afford one however] - Luckily this turned up - looks to be a ZB parts guitar with an entirely home made rod and changer/adjuster system - after 12 hours of stripping, cleaning, restringing and setting up it now works [almost] perfectly. By that I mean it stays in tune [so far] and has some nice little differences to the Carter [RKL & RKR do entirely different and way more 'useful' to me, the novice anyway].
The pick up is super trebly and quite hot, in fact i did not like it initially and when played on its own it sounded harsh - strangely as soon as its in a mix [with other instruments] it simply sings and stands out, nice and shimmery [if thats an appropriate word].Guess my question [other than introducing myself] is this - you guys reckon this thing will last? - the rods are soooo home made and almost amateurish compared to everything else i see on here, that i worry its all a bit 'toy'. Is it worth going to the extraordinary lengths [that someone has previously gone to] to retro fit a better [read more sturdy] rod and hardware set up for this kind of thing or are parts guitar simply not worth it?

For transparencies sake i am a 55 year old bluegrass banjo player and builder - so parts instruments [and the discussions around them] are very much part of my musical landscape. A few pics below and i'd really appreciate any views you lovely people might have - even if it is bin the thing and start over [please don't say that!!













Thanks in advance folks and have a lovely day, and all the very best from London [England].

[Doug Earnest]

To my mind you would be ahead to take the time and money to fix the deficiencies of the Carter Starter. It doesn't take much to fix the flimsy stops and maybe make a more sturdy pedal rack. That's just my opinion.

[John Hyland]

One thing that seems inflexible is the bellcrankc are welded to the cross rods meaning it is impossible to change the copendent. You have already identified the levers as not being the same as your Carter.
But if the pedal level action is smooth, stays in tune plays in tune and sounds ok then it is a keeper.
There is nothing to stop you making or buying an adjustable bellcrank/cross rod.

Personally I can’t comment on the changer mechanism as my experience in different changers is limited.

[Frank Brown]

Thanks John and Doug - really helpful and slightly reassuring - to confirm the carter isn't a bad guitar - but it is a starter instrument [the clue is in the name] - in banjo worlds the term BAS comes up a lot [Banjo Acquisition Syndrome] - is there such a thing as PSGAS i wonder?

As for the welded bell cranks - how much do you guys reset, adjust or generally fiddle with those once they are set up? - the idea of changing the/a copendant frightens the s+++ out of me and TBH i have no idea why i'd do that [why do you guys do that?].

The suggestion to upgrade the pedal board on the Carter is a great one and definitely worth doing -

Thanks for your time and again - really sorry for the ultra-dumb questions - but, if you don't ask you wont learn.

Have a great day!

[John Hyland]

Reason to change a copendent.: There is a core setup which most players use but as you develop you get ann idea to change or add a lever. You might even decide you want to play C6th. I forsook the low D string and moved the B there and added G# to the tenth. Some also like the Day setup, with the pedal order reversed.
So yes being able to make changes is a good thing but working around what you have is something we do everyday but eventually you may be frustrated.

That said Attachable bellcranks are available depending on the diameter of your cross rod. Here is a thread viewtopic.php?p=3093092#3093092

[Frank Brown]

John many thanks for the post and explanation - [again apologies for being very green to this - hence the questions] - really appreciate the link to the bell cranks too - i played the ZB parts guitar all weekend and she is shaping up to be a reliable tool thankfully. - Have a great day!

[Richard Sinkler]

I think the only ZB parts on there are the changer/pickup casting and the keyhead. The actual changer looks homemade, and not like any ZB I have ever seen. I owned 2 ZBs, was a dealer for short time, and have seen many others,and none had a changer like that. If it plays good and stays in tune, that's half the battle of playing one these machines.

[Bobby D. Jones]

The cross rods and bell cranks looks like they was made using a Sho-Bud Permanent from the 1960's, As a pattern.

To make any changes under the guitar, And make the underneath neat, It would be easier to make new cross rods and bell cranks, Than trying to remove and reuse the present cross rods and bell cranks.

I built a steel about 1970 using welded bell cranks. BTDT

Good Luck and Happy Steelin.

[Frank Brown]

Richard - absolutely correct - the changer unit is entirely hand made and you can see the tooling [file] marks on top of the fingers - I have to admire the maker though - i seriously doubt i'd have been able to make it work [which it does!] - I too believe the carings to be ZB and nothing else - i do wonder about the timbre though as there are [seem to be] pre-existing marks and holes for a different rod system [now long gone sadly] - thank you for your time and thoughts on the old tool.

Bobby - super-interesting observation regarding the possibility that the cross rods and bell cranks were modeled on a sho-bud - that really helps me in looking at upgrading those parts of the guitar - sadly i just learnt that the last 2 pedal steel builders here in the UK have given up working or passed away recently - thankfully you guys are geniuses so I am very, very grateful for your thought and time.