Geez. This is tough stuff but that is a good point. The SG Forum is something that is priceless and needs to be protected against a worse case scenario. Food for thought. We should view this as a teaching moment.
Time after time after time we have these folks that send in their PSG to get a shine up all pretty or they put up a big deposit on a new steel to be built by Ma & Pa shop (small business steel guitar builder and shop). Then we have to look at all the pictures on the Forum and hear how great Ma & Pa are and how everyone should buy a steel from them or we should send our piece of crap steel in and get Ma & Pa to shine it up so it will be as pretty as theirs.
At the same time after time we see on the Forum where someone is saying that another Ma & Pa filled bankruptcy or Pa died and they hope we hadn't sent a deposit or shipped our steel to them for a shine.
At the same time after time we see replies of “What???!!! I didn't see that comingâ€
This Insanity should only be indulged in by those who can afford to lose large sums of money and/or property.
For the rest of us COD, look over their shoulder till it's fixed and learn how to do our own shines.
Stuart, by your theory we shouldn't be dealing with any steel guitar company. I can't think of one pedal steel guitar company that is a "big business". From what I see posted on the forum the others may be in the same category. Zum is one person, Franklin is one person. Same way with stores, Scotty's is basically one person, Billy Cooper's is basically Billy and his wife, etc.
Last edited by Richard Sinkler on 26 May 2014 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Carter D10 8p/7k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup, Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112, Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open G slide and regular G tuning guitar) .
I’m not saying don’t do business I’m just saying do business in a way that you are not the one losing money and property if you are among those caught up in the inevitable small business demise.
Just these 2 things
1. Don’t put up a deposit.
Buy only where you can Plop down the cash at the same time you get your guitar, shipped COD or paypal with timely rigid shipping agreement with satisfaction guaranteed.
2. Don’t ship your Steel off for repairs.
Take your repairs into the business and wait till it’s fixed and don’t leave without it (fixed or not fixed).
If this is not possible learn to do your own repairs.
Remember SOB’s like me (the squeaky wheel) gets the grease and nice guys put up a deposit and go to the back of the line.
Last edited by Stuart Legg on 26 May 2014 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's totally unrealistic Stuart. Most repairmen and businesses will require some kind of deposit to help cover the monetary outlay for parts for the repair and make sure you don't crap out of the deal. It would be my luck that someone would send me a guitar, I obtain the parts, and the customer asks for his guitar back not worked on. There I am out the money for the parts.
And shipping the guitar off for repairs or rebuild is the only option for some. Not everyone has mechanical aptitude.
Carter D10 8p/7k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup, Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112, Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open G slide and regular G tuning guitar) .
If I back out on deal and a business gets stuck with the parts and that is going to put the business in harms way I would think the business is pretty shaky an my backing out on a deal was the right call.
At the very most the business should only expect a reasonable restocking fee paid after the fact not a deposit up front.
I’m not trying to be insulting here but the mechanics of a PSG are right at the Cave Man level.
But there are people that don't even have "Cave man mechanics" abilities. That doesn't mean they shouldn't play the PSG. Many can't change spark plugs or oil in a car, and that's really Jr. High mechanics level. Should they not have a car?
And I don't think anyone mentioned that backing out of a deal was a death sentence for a business. At least I didn't, and I would have to re-read this post, as I don't remember anyone else saying that ( I could be wrong though). The point I was making is, I lay out a couple hundred or more to secure part for a repair that someone backs out of. I probably have a slim chance of them taking the parts back and refunding my money. There I am out the money and in possession of parts I may never use. Of course, they could probably be sold on the forum.
I agree that you should find someone reputable, even though that is not always a good sign. I've seen "reputable" people screw others. Just an example, I would not hesitate to send Lynn Stafford, or several others my guitar to work on, and even pay a deposit for that work. They are one man businesses and really don't have the extra cash laying around to out and out purchase parts up front. Hell some of the builders fall into that category (and they also require deposits).
Carter D10 8p/7k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup, Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112, Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open G slide and regular G tuning guitar) .
And, if a person is not going to pay a deposit, what do you think your chances are of getting a re-stocking fee from them.
Carter D10 8p/7k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup, Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112, Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open G slide and regular G tuning guitar) .
i would say that since pedal steel is such a "niche" industry, that anything we can do to support those who are on the cutting edge of the business will be doing ourselves a big favor. take for example what happened when CBS dropped Fender and left it adrift after Leo passed. from what i understand, the Fender employees took it upon themselves to save the company from becoming just another business flotsam and jetsam.
Bobbe left us with his stories, something no court can bang a gavel over, (i trust) and no one else can claim, as it came from Bobbe. how many such industries can claim to have personal communication to the faithful, from the man in charge and on the front lines?
while i for one have collected every one of those memories since joining his list in 2007, it's good to note that i'm not alone in that endeavor, that foresight prevails in times like these.
only we can police our own.
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7
Godfrey Arthur wrote: take for example what happened when CBS dropped Fender and left it adrift after Leo passed. from what i understand, the Fender employees took it upon themselves to save the company from becoming just another business flotsam and jetsam.
Leo sold the company to CBS in 1965.
When Bill Schultz and a few investors purchased Fender from CBS (1986?), Leo was still alive and running G&L.
Leo had nothing to do with Fender Musical Instruments long before he passed away.
...and it's not as if the factory workers pitched in to buy Fender either.
Mr. Schultz was pretty high up on the food chain at that company before he bought it.
Trust me, the factory workers got the shaft.
yeah that's right i had forgotten about Leo's Music Man/ G&L days after letting Fender go to CBS and sort of lumped the real history into a hurried vague snippet. i used to have a Music Man amp then in fact. and G&L are some fine guitars. thanks for the clarify. i remember the quality changing after CBS took over. i had purchased my share of "Leo" guitars with the "L" within the serial number on the neck plates and the pre-CBS amps. i lost sight of the fact Leo passed in the early 90's.
but YES, it would definitely take a bunch of money (someone with serious deep pockets) to take on something the size of Fender.
wasn't there a period (early 80's?) where Fender was making guitars in Japan and none in the U.S. until Fender reorganized?
guess my main point was Fender was in danger of just disappearing at one point, as many musical instrument companies seem to experience.
but then how about Gibson of late, being told by a judge, to move to Madagascar to build guitars with the CEO breaking down in tears when they got raided a few times by the U.S. gov't?
strange days indeed.
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7
All these posts make me feel so sad.
So many great people who have passed away leaving our history rich and themselves not so rich.
I got to thank Scotty for putting on the convention. Even though I have not gone to one since 1980 at least I got to meet, see and hear some of these wonderful steel players and builders.
Bobby's news letters were so full of interesting information and I miss them also. From them I feel like I knew him though we never met.
Still youtube is crammed with his great playing and teaching.
The Gibson thing seems to have been political because he donated to the "Wrong party" while two other very large guitar companies who bought their materials from the same place were not raided. They put their bets on this party in power.
Seems like so much good in our country is going away.
A special thank you to our b0b for keeping this forum going. We all love you b0b! Remember to donate to the forum from time to time folks...
Another to Tom Bradshaw for everything he has done for so many years we can't even begin to list it all.
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Andy De Paule wrote:
The Gibson thing seems to have been political because he donated to the "Wrong party" while two other very large guitar companies who bought their materials from the same place were not raided.
yes, i've heard that version. it basically has to do with Agenda 21 which Clinton signed in 1994, the initial steps toward globalism and new world order that has created industrial zones (among a myriad of other issues) set aside for certain industries. that Indian rosewood was used in the construction of Gibson guitars, the "new rules" are that India, the source of the rosewood was needed in the building process of the guitar to "finish" the guitar IN INDIA. Gibson proved and contended that according to Indian laws, the rosewood blanks sent to Gibson were already considered 'finished" by India's government, yet the Agenda 21 "laws" were used against Gibson in their court case that the guitars needed Indian workers to attach those rosewood fretboards to the guitars. hence the judge's ruling that Gibson move to Madagascar to construct guitars. the underlying idea is to make it economically unfeasible to be shipping a guitar all over the planet to finish the guitar just to adhere to these new "rules" forcing the manufacture to move out of CONUS to an "economic zone" that was sanctioned to do such work. that certain other guitar makers "sided" with certain PTB, this exempted them from any harassment. but for how long is the next question? Agenda 21 has not been repealed and is still on the books.
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7
