Compression While Recording

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 1 Dec 2013 5:22 pm

Is it a good idea to have compression on your steel while recording? I did a session three weeks ago and that is what the engineer did. The steel sounded like it was struggling to even be heard. I was told this week you never put compression on an instrument while recording. Unfortunately I have not done enough recording to know. Any advice would certainly be appreciated.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 2 Dec 2013 3:33 am

Most of the time I record without any effects (dry). I can then add what I want after. If you record with any effects and later decide you want to take it out, you can't.

There are others that do record with effects.

Depends on the engineer/producer.

But, I wouldn't use compression during recording steel.

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 2 Dec 2013 5:15 am

Paul,

Had to jump in here. I agree with Jack on this issue, but a lot of engineers use compression for an effect rather than what it was intended for originally IMHO.

What I normally use on steel and vocals is a limiter. This is different from compression in that it will attempt to keep the peaks down. So if you are playing along and accidentally hit a hot note (volume wise not playing wise!!) the limited will compress that note down to avoid overloading the signal to the recorder. If set up properly it is almost seamless and will not affect the tone or the intention of what the player wanted to do.

Compression on the other hand is taking the entire dynamic range of a signal and either raising it or lowering it to a desired level. When overused the sound tends to be squishy for lack of a better term.
I rarely ever used compression and really didn't like what it did. To hear compression listen to any radio station. They tend to heavily compress the signal to get 100% power at the transmitter. Not fond of that sound myself.

Since you are in the DFW area to hear the difference in the radio world tune in to any typical station and then tune in 101.1 which is the classical station which has no compression on it. The difference is night and day IMHO.

Hope this helps,

Mark

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 Dec 2013 6:15 am

Compression is used quiet a bit on some level for recording. It is an essential tool. One of the most valuable parts of what tube amps bring to the sound is compression.

If your engineer didn't screw up your sound with compression he would have screwed it up some other way. If an engineer destroys someones sound while tracking with compression it shows a general ignorance and incompetence. Engineers and producers earn there pay by acting like they know what they are doing. Sorta like car repairmen.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 2 Dec 2013 7:40 am

I've used compression some times for an audible effect on regular 6 string guitars but not on any steel guitars. Often while mastering a steel part I will apply compression to even out the volume unless the compression effects become audible. At that point I go back and use volume control envelopes to even out the sound then re-apply light compression (3 - 9db) to get the sound levels even. If the steel player is pumping the foot volume to get swells or other cool effects, you don't want the compression to mess with that. Most modern compressors have tons of controls for look ahead, hold times, reset times etc. that they can level out a pretty nasty waveform without killing the dynamics of the steel sound. Often it pays to put 3 - 6 db of compression on the input ahead of time to make the mastering easier later on.

Greg

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Dec 2013 2:26 pm

Compression is not an effect. It's a processing tool.

I use a very slight compression all the time now, I have done dozens of sessions over the last year or so, each engineer used a very mild compression . Compression is not an effect, it's a tool to control ( squash or tame ) excessive peaks.

Since doing sessions I have added a small stand-alone compressor ahead of the recorder input. It's there but you would never know it. If you can hear it, back it down.

My humble opinion, adding a very slight compression ahead of the recorder has done more for my tracks than any other single thing in the chain. One day I may even spring for a real hi quality tube compressor instead of the cheap SS one I have.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Dec 2013 2:29 pm

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Compression is used quiet a bit on some level for recording. It is an essential tool. One of the most valuable parts of what tube amps bring to the sound is compression.

If your engineer didn't screw up your sound with compression he would have screwed it up some other way. If an engineer destroys someones sound while tracking with compression it shows a general ignorance and incompetence. Engineers and producers earn there pay by acting like they know what they are doing. Sorta like car repairmen.

See above

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 2 Dec 2013 4:32 pm

Thanks guys for all the info. It is greatly appreciated.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 3 Dec 2013 8:30 am

"Engineers and producers earn there pay by acting like they know what they are doing. Sorta like car repairmen."

Yikes....

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 3 Dec 2013 3:41 pm

John,
At your level people know what they are doing. Like real mechanics. For every guy like you there are a hundred pompous morons. Think of all those bottom feeding "gonna make you a star" producers.

Don't get me started on indie rock producers into that warm vibey tape sound....

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 3 Dec 2013 5:43 pm

Whew, I was starting to wonder

. There are some hacks out there for sure...

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 4 Dec 2013 1:23 pm

Bob Hoffnar wrote:... indie rock producers into that warm vibey tape sound....

That's some kind of VST plug-in, isn't it?

Jeff Valentine · Post by **Jeff Valentine** » 22 Dec 2013 10:08 pm

Paul,

It's pretty common for engineers and producers to use a little compression on certain things while tracking. Vocals, bass and certain parts of the drum kit are common places where this happens. This is more common in commercial music like pop and country. People won't do this on horns in a big band for example. Steel guitar is usually recorded without compression. What was your level like going to tape? The drawback to recording with compression is that you can't undo it. It's usually used sparingly when tracking. You can always add it later, and usually have to on certain tracks. Was this the first time the engineer recorded steel? Have a great Christmas.

-Jeff

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 23 Dec 2013 7:55 am

I am pretty well versed in compression and have about $20,000.00 worth of them in my racks. I use them both as processing tools and as effects. A lot of times, tracks get processed through them without using a lot of the compression circuit, just using it for the tone the unit delivers (usually a result of the transformers in the circuit). The UREI 1176 even has an "off" setting on the attack knob that lets you utilize the sound of the unit without actually compressing anything. Until you understand them and know exactly what you are looking for, you do have to be careful how you print, as there is no undoing it later. I do print using a decent amount on things I know will benefit from it. I also use a lot a parallel
compression, where you duplicate the track and have one uncompressed and one mondo compressed, and you can blend the compressed track in to make it big and beefy, while the uncompressed track lets a taste of the dynamics peek through and and sound a bit more natural. Though I do use a lot of plugins (the McDSP G Channel and the 6030 Ultimate Comp being my favorites), they don't come close to touching the hardware versions. Certainly specific styles of music lend themselves to more compression than others, but even mixing a traditional country track, there's a bit on just about every track for sure...

Daryl Thisdelle · Post by **Daryl Thisdelle** » 7 Jul 2014 4:32 pm

I agree with ya there John on plug ins and hardware compression. I also have some great hardware compression rigs and it takes skill to listen and then let them work their magic. Hey how are those Equator 8's doing for ya.

Daryl

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 10 Jul 2014 6:23 am

I love the Equators! Everything translates great and they don't wear you out...unreal for the price...

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 23 Jul 2014 4:08 am

I record without compression. Once you've over-compensated for sloppy playing, there's no way you can undo the effects of too much compression.....
I do add slight compression during mix-down, only.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 12 Aug 2014 10:07 am

I agree with Paul, Jack and Nic. I do a lot of home recording where I play every part in the band. I usually start off with vocal and guitar on tracks 2 and 3, with a rhythm track on track 1. I record everything without any effects because they can be added later, but never removed. I then add additional instruments one at a time, finally adding live percussion and removing the computer-generated percussion. I record every track with optimum volume for that instrument, without regard to its volume compared to the other instruments.

Then I take all the outputs from my recorder into another recorder, with effects units in between, and mix a new master. From that master I mix down into stereo, usually onto CD or Minidisk. Each mixdown I back up onto my computer, so I have several different mixdowns of each song to choose from.

The beauty of home recording is that if you screw up you record that part again, which is something you couldn't do live. The finished product then makes one sound better than one actually is.