2011 BIAB Ultra Pak with Real Tracks- Sale Cancelled

[Robert Tripp]

I have cancelled the sale of BIAB due to a misunderstanding of the licensing agreement. sorry for the confusion.

Rob

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Hi Robert,

I was going to do the same, with the Everything Packs.

I bought the "2011 Everything pack" on a HD from PG music, when it first came out. I then bought the "2011.5 Everything Pack" on a HD, from PG Music. Then in December, I again bought the "2012, Everything Pack" on another HD

So that's three full packages. Each of them is the total program/s in full, current to that date.

I found out from PG music, if I sell, even the first one, (or any of them for that matter) I'd lost my License to USE Band in the box.

They said the reason why that is, I started out with 2010, and have been paying a cheaper price for the continued upgrades (which are special prices) simply because I don't own the programs (They do). And when you buy the program, all you're buying is the LICENSE to use their Program. So, in selling any of them. I Would then lose my right to continue to use their Program.

Just thought I'd pass that info along. Oh! I knew there was something else. Then! In order to get back the License to Use their product, I'd have to buy (AND PAY the FULL PRICE, (rather than the Special Upgrade price) in order to once again Have a License back to use their program.

Now that doesn't make any sense at all to me, really, but I felt you should know. Plus the person receiving the program, wouldn't have a legal right to use it as well. Not until they Paid Full Price to PG music.

Edited to show the actual message I sent to PG Music, & the received message back from PG Music:
---------------------
To PG Music,

Hello,

I have a couple of questions I hope you can help me with.

I'd heard so much about BIAB on the steel guitar forum that I finally decided to purchase the 2011 (Everything Package on a Hard Drive) and also purchased the additional Bonus 20 Pack.

I selected the offer to upgrade from an earlier version. Then when the 2011.5 came out, I once again purchased the "Everything Pack on a Hard Drive" and also purchased the additional Bonus 20 Pack.

Next came the 2012, so once again, I purchased the "Everything Package on a Hard Drive" and also purchased the additional Bonus 20 Pack.

So I think you may already be laughing at me, for making all the (possibly) wrong moves, during my purchases. "Not that I'm complaining about what I did, (not at all). I wanted to be sure that I had the latest of everything if I was going to get into using BIAB.

On after thought I could have probably taken the less expensive route, and ended up with the same results, without purchasing the last two upgrades on additional Hard Drives. (If I'm correct in thinking that?).

Now this is the part I really need to find out about. Am I right in thinking that each of these (Now) Three, "Everything Packs on hard drives" in and of themselves, are a total package? Meaning the same as if I'd never owned a previous version of "Band In The Box" and each one had Everything on them?

And also, for when the 2012.5 comes out, what is the correct route for me to take to get what I need, without having to end up with (then) 4 new hard drive's with the Everything Package on them.

I guess what I'm really asking is, do I really need to keep those previous two (2011 and 2011.5) Hard Drives with the "Everything Packs" on them, or can I simply put them up for sale?

Thanks for your time, and hope I explained it ok.

A very satisfied customer of yours, but a bit confused. I've been wanting to ask before, but didn't want to bother anyone, in my ignorance.. Thanks again.

Sincerely,
Don Brown, Sr.
NJ
-------------------

Hi Don,

Since you were buying upgrades each time, you were just updating your existing license, not purchasing additional licenses. This means that if you sell one of those EverythingPAKs, you'll also be selling your license, sorry.

You wouldn't be allowed to use Band-in-a-Box anymore or purchase any more upgrades, until you bought another "First Time Purchase" package.

When 2012.5 comes out, there will probably be a DVD upgrade that just gets you the new version and the new RealTracks. These upgrades have been around $99 in the past.

Thank you
Kent
PG Music

[Graham]

If ever there was a rip-off, this is it!! A good reason why I never upgrade the program! Still using ver. 2008.5 and just order/buy any new real tracks or drum tracks cd's that interest me.

PG Music really believes in what P. T. Barnum said conderning "suckers"!

[Robert Tripp]

Thanks Don I'll check into that further, although as I understood something I saw in writing somewhere, is that you can sell the program in whole, but not in part. I'll check further, thanks.

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Hi Robert,

I'd be interested in knowing what you find out from PG Music concerning this too.

I can see both sides of the issue. My side, for having (3) Everything Packages (and (3) Bonus Packs) and not being permitted to (legally) sell any of them, without losing my license to use whichever version/s I still hadn't sold.

While on the other hand, since PG Music, offers a huge discounted price, for previous owners, I can see their point too.

With the tons of money they continually put out in order to make a great product, it could literally put them out of business.

That's because, I think any one of us would be willing to wait until the new upgrades came out, and then buy their last years program from folks selling their previous packages.

And, I guess there are just as many different ways of looking at it, depending on where a person stands on their viewpoints of looking at the total picture as a whole.

One of my problems has always been, not reading the "Terms Of Service" agreement/s, and simply putting a check mark, to indicate I Agree and Except (whatever program it happens to be) their terms.

Just maybe, a good practice to get into, would be for all of us to start reading the "Terms of Service" agreement/s. However, I find them too long and boring. But I'm just as sure I'd still buy whatever it was regardless, (anyway) if it was a program I really wanted to use.

Don

[Don Brown, Sr.]

After thought:

Another way to look at it, would be, it's probably no different than had Rick not made his "Great DVD Program" of "Band In The Box Made Easy" now (Public Domain) and folks were to buy it, then make copies and sell it, that too would have put Rick out of business and/or at least, a loss in sales, that he'd worked diligently on.

Just a thought, to make myself feel better about being unable to sell, (or for that matter) even give away my packages, or probably not being able to use any of them on another computer either, if the agreement is like Microsoft's and other's programs. Unless the programs are "Open Source" Programs, such as Audacity, and a few others. With those, you can do with, as you see fit.

With those programs, you can reverse engineer them, and change them around to any way you'd like. Give them away, sell them for whatever price you can get, etc, etc.. But not so, with most other software programs.

I'm wondering if I can legally remove the programs, and simply use those notebook USB HD's for backing up files on? Probably not? Something worth looking into. I'll try to find the "Terms of Service" on PG's Site, to see what answers I can find to share with whoever might be interested.......... Don

[Robert Tripp]

I didn't contact PG, I just re-read the license agreement. You are only allowed to use it on one computer at a time.

Also the Hard drive can be erased and used for whatever you want as I understand it.

I can see their point but then again if I buy a new guitar keep it a year and sell it to someone else that would otherwise have purchased a new one isn't that the same thing. Except for the fact that I didn't agree to any license terms on the guitar.

Such is life.

[Jim Cohen]

I don't think they can actually stop you from using your version (or someone else from using an older version), because you don't have to go online to use BIAB. You can use it fully off-line. So how the heck do they know who's using what?

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Robert,

Yes, I opened up one of my manuals, and found it on the inside of the front cover.

With selling (or buying) a used or new guitar, the only difference I can see is, that you would be actually selling (or buying) the guitar itself, and not just a license to use the guitar.

Quite interesting! But it does say, that you can sell to anyone who is willing to Agree to the same "Terms of Use" or (Terms of Service, whatever). But when I read past that, it also went on to say that in doing so, you would have to completely destroy all other files and/or any other BIAB that was on your computer, and/or in your possession. Now that really gets down to the punch line in full.

So now my question is, why do we all see so many being sold on Ebay? They're all (supposedly) dealers for PG Music.

Much the same with "Microsoft Windows" you can only use it on One computer, unless you buy more licenses, to use the same program on more than one.

I really don't feel anyone would be hurting the company in using it on another computer, (that only "They themselves" use). But I guess technically, they'd have a buy a second license. I didn't see any pricing on licenses themselves though.

But hey! Don't feel bad. Check into your recording DAW's and you'll find much the exact same there too. That is, unless it's "Audacity", or another Open Source program.

Now days, since Microsoft first started court dates, over it, that seems to have made Software, as it is today. We simply buy licenses to use it, and then too, usually only on one computer per license......