Herb Steiner a "pixie"???

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 13 Jan 2003 4:15 pm

Tom, wasn't "Old and in the Way"(band and album) after Seatrain?
Boy, is this fun!

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 13 Jan 2003 5:38 pm

Heres a blurb from Peter Rowan's website:

After leaving Earth Opera, he became a part of Seatrain, a rock-fusion unit whose records were produced by George Martin. Rowan left the band in 1972 to form the Rowan Brothers with siblings Chris and Lorin, and recorded one eponymous album. After the group disbanded Rowan then recorded Old & in the Way with Grisman, Jerry Garcia, Vassar Clements and John Kahn. In 1974, Rowan, Grisman, Clarence White and Richard Greene formed Muleskinner, a bluegrass band. Muleskinner released one album and then disbanded. He then reunited the Rowan Brothers, who this time played together until the early '80s. Meanwhile, Rowan also began playing rock and bluegrass with Mexican Airforce, which featured accordion player Flaco Jimenez. In the mid-'80s, he and Jiminez again reteamed to record Flaco Jiminez and Peter Rowan: Live Rockin' Tex-Mex. He founded the Nashville-based Wild Stallions in 1983, and throughout the '80s and '90s continued to work with a variety of musicians and tour as a solo act.

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Greg Simmons
Custodian of the Official Sho~Bud Pedal Steel Guitar Website

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 13 Jan 2003 5:59 pm

Rowan left the band in 1972 to form the Rowan Brothers with siblings Chris and Lorin, and recorded one eponymous album.

I have always loved the word "eponymous."

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 13 Jan 2003 6:29 pm

Hah! I've always loved that word too, Herb! It seems like every other album is an eponymous album, doesn't it? Reviewers seem to love that word.

Stephen -- YES! Old and in the Way is the band I was trying to think of. From the blurb that Greg found, it appears that Rowan has done a lot more than just Old and in the Way. Interesting. By the way, that date of 1974 for the formation of Muleskinner can't be right, can it? I thought it was 1973.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 13 Jan 2003 8:40 pm

And wasn't that a cool tune,"The Girl From Eponymous?"

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 13 Jan 2003 11:30 pm

Quick connection to another current thread - Peter Rowan did a great album around 1996 called "Yonder" - just himself on guitar & vocals and Jerry Douglas on dobro - mostly old-timey/bluesy stuff. Well worth a listen for acoustic music/dobro lovers.
Nick

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 14 Jan 2003 8:47 am

Wow, what a great thread! I just got in on it too late!! I noticed you have mentioned a very good friend of mine in an earlier post. Bobby Slone. We have been working together for the last 5 years at Renfro Valley, Kentucky. Bobby and I have sat and talked about Clarence White several times. He really loved Clarence. Bobby was also a Golden State Boy at one time too. He moved back to Kentucky and hooked up with J.D. Crowe. He was with Crowe for over 20 years, with Skaggs, Rice, Jerry Douglas, and the late Keith Whitley when they worked for him.

You mentioned Clarence's guitar, now owned by Tony Rice. Here is the story that Bobby told me.

Clarence had needed some money at one time and sold the guitar out west. Sort of pawned it I guess. When he went back to get it, the guy would not let him buy it back. The new owner eventually had it refinished by a violin builder. Years later, after Clarence passed, Bobby and Rice were working together in J.D. Crowe's band. Tony had asked about the guitar and Bobby told him where it was at and the man that had it. I guess from there Tony went out west and bought the guitar.

As for the cigarette/soundhole stories, they are true according to Bobby. Clarence used to throw his cigarette butts in the soundhole. Bobby told me once, that they would go out on the beach at night sometimes. Clarence would always have that guitar with him. He would just throw it down in the sand and go swimming if he felt like it!!

And another thing about Bobby, he plays fiddle left handed, but strung right handed. He is on some of the Kentucky Colonels albums, but I am not sure which ones.

Sorry for talking too much, great history on this thread. This is the kind of stuff I enjoy reading!

Greg

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 14 Jan 2003 11:28 am

Hi Greg J. -- Thanks for your very interesting post. I don't think you talked too much at all -- in fact, I'd love to hear more!!

Sounds like Clarence really must have been scraping by for him to have sold one of his favorite guitars.

I have a copy of the Kentucky Colonels' eponymous(hah, hah, hah) self-titled album (sometimes referred to as "The Big Teeth" Album) originally released by World Pacific. Bobby Slone is on that album. According to the liner notes, Bobby also played on another World Pacific album, but it doesn't mention the title of that album. [This message was edited by Tom Olson on 14 January 2003 at 11:33 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 14 Jan 2003 8:46 pm

Bobby Sloan IS left-handed, but plays backwards on several instruments. He is a real nice guy, and he excels on several instruments.
As for Clarence's D-28, it also has an extra hole in the top, where Clarence shot it with a pellet gun! And, incidentally, he recorded most of his lead work with either a D-18, or a Roy Noble custom mahogany guitar. The Clarence White Martin commerative guitar, is also mahogany.

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 14 Jan 2003 8:53 pm

Martin issued the D-18 Clarence White model. The run has been finished although I don't know how many were made. They are fantastic guitars. Last year, the Martin Co. also issued a D-28 Clarence White model. One with indian rosewood back and sides and the other with brazillian rosewood back and sides. Both are limited editions as were the D-18's. The brazillian D-28 CW model is fetching a $9999.00 retail list price!!!

Greg

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 14 Jan 2003 9:16 pm

From what little I've seen (on video) and read about Clarence he was pretty shy and quiet. But, it sounds like he was a real character!! Putting cigarette butts out on the top of his guitar and then throwing the butts inside it!! Leaving the guitar in the sand on the beach while he went swimming!! Shooting a hole in the guitar with a pellet gun!! And, finally, selling the guitar outright!!

I've seen pictures of his Telecaster and he did some funny stuff to that one too. He put stickers on it, and he mounted an emblem from an old Plymouth automobile on it. Finally, he and Gene Parsons did major surgery on it when they installed the string bender.

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 15 Jan 2003 12:02 am

If you ever want to see that Tele in real life, go to a Marty Stuart show. He owns it and plays it... as I understand it, his view is that instruments, even "historic" ones, are for PLAYING. He was using it the one time I saw him, here in Paris, about 6 (?) years ago, on a show with Emmylou H.
Nick

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 15 Jan 2003 10:02 am

I got whacked in the head with the peghead of that guitar one night.
It was my big historical moment.

-John

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 15 Jan 2003 12:37 pm

Richard Greene also played with Buel Neidlinger (bass) in a band called Buelgrass.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 15 Jan 2003 3:34 pm

The Muleskinner album was really formed out of a concert/TV special that the group had formed to do with Bill Monroe, I'm not sure how exactly it came about, but the name Muleskinner was dropped in and a deal was arranged with Asylum Records, most likely due to Clarence's link to the Byrds.

Anyhoo, most of the group had been performing on and off together as the Bluegrass Dropouts since late 1969 at informal jams and appearences, although this was mainly hampered by their various other gigs, espcially White who was a full time Byrd and a studio cat by that stage.

The '73 TV show was taped and a video and CD is available through Sierra Records who also reissued the resulting studio album. Sadly Monroe was a no show, apparently Monroe's bus broke down and he was unable to make the taping, so Muleskinner did it all with a couple of guests. Monroe once claimed in an interview that he only missed three gigs in his career, one because of a flooding, another due to a snow storm, so I assume that was the third!

I don't have all the details on hand, but the album was recorded fairly quickly, and I believe that Grisman once stated that he felt the whole thing was too rushed, they didn't have time to work up much material and most of the project is covers, whereas they'd have preferred more new material.
By the time it was in the can the whole Asylum/Elektra/WB drama and label switcheroo was on and the group ended up on Warner, to whome Clarence also signed a solo deal in 1973.
Ultimately Clarence was killed in mid '73 and his solo debut was only four incomplete studio tracks. A planned Kentucky Colonels studio set was never cut (although a live LP from a '73 European tour did surface), a series of 1960s Kentucky Colonels retrospetives concieved by White with John Delgatto was later issued by John, and the Muleskinner album was issued in 1974.

By this stage there was of course no group to support it, they had been working on other projects while CW had his own career, but after CW's death, well it seems that they didn't really want to use the name.

B. Greg Jones' post caught my eye!
Greg, does Bobby have emai at all, I'm not sure if Bobby knows, but there's a writer friend of mine who's got a book on the Golden State Boys!..

Apparently when Rice first got the CW acoustic it was covered in grime and really badly worn. He had it totally worked on, I totally admire his determination.