Curls vs. Pete

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Jul 2002 9:30 am

d@mn! I SWORE I'd stay out of this one

Most steel players are aware of their capabilities. Many can play simple passages that lend the SOUND OF THE STEEL GUITAR to a recording. Some actually do it in the studios. I believe what Pete Drake did was to give the music what it needed which was basically simplicity with a little phrase or twist that caught the ear.

I have heard Paul Franklin relate that this is the aspect of Pete's playing that appealed to him. We can't lose sight of the fact that very few singers or producers want the steel to bury their song or the lead vocal with notes. Whether the steel player is CAPABLE of doing this is not really very important. I honestly believe that most competent steel players with good tone, technique, and intonation could play demo or even master sessions and please the bosses. They don't want Charlie Parker phrases or complex tonalities that some players are capable of. They want you to leave that at home for your own playing. On their dime, they want a solid, musical performance that is memorable and catchy.

NOW FOR THE DIFFERENCE. Some of these players who are perfectly capable of taking a simple melody and progression and crafting a decent accompaniment are ALSO monster players. I believe that Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons, Curly Chalker, and countless others fall into this category. Pete Drake probably didn't. He wouldn't stand up very well in a jam session and, from what I've heard and seen, didn't participate in what he might have considered a pi$$ing contest.

Some players can play classical or pop or fusion or bebop or cool jazz or whatever OTHER THAN COUNTRY, in addition to being a competent country player. BOTTOM LINE IS that recording and touring with major artists doesn't really require that and some less capable players in the 'Jam Mode' have made better money than monster players.

It's a fact. Some monster players can do both. I sincerely believe that Buddy Emmons is incapable of playing anything that is inappropriate, but there are some players who have to hot rod everything they play. STEEL PLAYERS LOVE THAT!!!! BUT, most producers of country music and many of the fans really don't care for a super hot sideman who's playing a blue streak.

We need to carefully define GOOD PLAYER and SUCCESS. Someone who can play the right thing at the right time AND NO MORE is a valuable commodity to those who pay the big bucks.

Just my opinion.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 01 July 2002 at 10:33 AM.]

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 1 Jul 2002 10:32 am

The way I see it, Pete Drake didn't care to compete with anybody. Carl--I can say he was a good player because I'm not one of those great players that didn't think he was any good. I'm glad that you have never heard me--you would say I was one of the poorest steel players you have ever heard. I might as well quit the band I play with on Saturday nights so that I will be able to watch all those steel players on the Opry. There are great steel players on the Opry but if Pete Drake were alive, God rest his soul, and appeared on the Opry now, the Sunday morning reviews of the Forum would surely say, "What a good job Pete Drake did last night." Joe

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 1 Jul 2002 11:10 am

Well Larry Bell; I'm glad you did jump into this one because those are some MIGHTY FINE words you have spoken. Folks should print that out and paste it to their Steel Guitar Case so they see it right before opening it up for the Gig or session.
The way I see it and believe......is exactly what Larry said.....and last thing I will mention is.
Many many times.....we as a public and musicians......may never get to hear everything someone has to offer.....so judgements are hearsay.
Ricky

Susan Alcorn (deceased) · Post by **Susan Alcorn (deceased)** » 1 Jul 2002 2:11 pm

I must admit that when I started out on the steel guitar, my heroes teneded to be more along the lines of Curly Chalker, etc. because they captured my imagination in a way that few of the commercial steel plyers could. But I liked Pete Drake too -- he was a commercial player, and I think his guidelines were those of what he considered "good taste" on the recordings he did. Obviously he was not the technicians that dozens of others were, maybe he was just lucky. It hadn't been him, it would have been someone else. He had the sound they were looking for.

Comparing commercial musicians with their brilliantly creative counterparts is something that in some ways makes you feel better, because you can put someone down and somehow feel superior, but it does little else. And unfortunately, to one degree or another I suppose we're all guilty of it.

This is just the way the world runs. Floyd Cramer probably made a lot more money than Bud Powell, and BB King makes more money than Kenny Burrel or Jim Hall.The best guitarist I ever knew, Bucky Meadows, died penniless. The causes for this are larger than us all. It's too bad that people who are the most creative, who are just blessed or cursed with a different tack on things that they have to follow are the ones who are usually struggling to keep out of poverty. Like the song says, "That's life."

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 1 Jul 2002 2:43 pm

Well said Susan!

JACK HEERN · Post by **JACK HEERN** » 1 Jul 2002 2:45 pm

I ask Doug Jernigan one time why Pete made all the big bucks while some of the big guns didn't get what I felt was their fare share. His reply--"Pete plays all the right things at the right time".... P F told me a few years back that Pete was his idol when he was getting started in the business. Paul said Pete gave him this advice (Play what the producer wants, even if you don't agree with him,take the money, then go to the Demon's Den get in a jam and get it out of your system) P F seems to always have a little pocket change on his person.

Pete wasn't one of my favorite players but he seemed to have something going for him. Curley was and is still is one of my favorite players but he did it his way.
(For what it's worth.)
jp
[This message was edited by JACK HEERN on 01 July 2002 at 05:48 PM.]

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 1 Jul 2002 5:11 pm

Carl, what are you talking about? Pete wasn't the greatest player. But I don't see how you can say he wasn't a great steel player. Anyone that could come up with the sounds he did had to know the tuning and pedal set up better than the other steel players. Which at that time would include Buddy.

You say you liked Jimmy Day on Ray's early stuff but not later. All his early stuff was mostly 3 and 5 string. Good old country steel. He didn't keep up with the knee levers as they came along but Emmons did and I feel that is when he passed everyone as a complete steel player. By that I mean as an E9th and C6th player.

We could debate this forever....but in the end it's just our opinon. Not trying to force it on anyone, just my opinon.

Bob.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 1 Jul 2002 6:36 pm

After reading, and posting, on this thread, I would like to add two definitive statements:
1. It is not necessary to have total technical command of an instrument, to be a great player.
2. I am, inarguably, the absolute worst player to ever sit behind a pedal steel guitar. EVER! And I will continue to hold that spot, until I die. After my death, I will be remembered, no matter what my other accomplishments, as "Steve Gambrell, the worst steel guitar player ever heard."
I want no arguments with either of these postulates.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 1 Jul 2002 6:48 pm

Mr Carlson wrote:

Anyone that could come up with the sounds he did had to know the tuning and pedal set up (better) than the other steel players.Which at that time would include Buddy.

I'll go alone with Pete having a knack for playing what a producer wanted to hear.If you feel that Pete was a great player. I'll even go alone with that.That's a matter of taste.But the above statement is just not true.Regards-------bb

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Jul 2002 6:59 pm

I agree that Pete Drake deserved his Hall of Fame plaque as much as anyone, but Buddy Emmons knew more about what pedals could do before they were even available than Pete Drake could ever imagine in his wildest dreams. And I think Pete would probably tell you so.

Lets put this in its proper perspective. Pete Drake had a knack for creating catchy musical phrases. Sometimes he 'invented' pedals or levers to create them. Any comparison with what Buddy Emmons has discovered in those changes on both necks is LUDICROUS, in my HUMBLE opinion

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 01 July 2002 at 08:06 PM.]

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 1 Jul 2002 7:01 pm

Stephen I'm so glad to hear that you are Worst steel guitar player. That takes a load off my back! See that everybody I'm not the worst steel guitar player. Joe

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 1 Jul 2002 7:35 pm

Larry what you say is true,there is no comparison with Buddy,Curly,Paul and many of todays greats.Pete did a good job and held his own. Did The Beast receive my E- mail I emjoyed the cd. Thank you. Joe[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 01 July 2002 at 08:46 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Jul 2002 8:20 pm

Yes, Joe
It was glad to hear from you and glad you enjoyed it's CD.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 1 Jul 2002 8:29 pm

Anyone that could come up with the sounds he did had to know the tuning and pedal set up better than the other steel players. Which at that time would include Buddy.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 1 Jul 2002 10:22 pm

Wasn't this fun? Now, everybody return to your corners, the bell has rung and the referee is scoring his card.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 2 Jul 2002 8:40 am

Mike, what does ROTFLMAO mean?

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 2 Jul 2002 9:39 am

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A$$ Off

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 2 Jul 2002 10:30 am

Why do people always spell 'ass' with dollar signs? I've never figured that one out. Imagine if they did that in the Bible.

Sorry for the diversion. I'll crawl back into my hole now.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 2 Jul 2002 10:41 am

That's 'cause the dollar hadn't been invented yet!

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 2 Jul 2002 10:50 am

BobbyLee .. you have reminded me of something. I know it doesn't belong in this thread however... this may or may not have happened .. Several years ago Ralph Mooney's donkey died. The way people got rid of carcasses was to bury them so Moon was out in the pasture by the fence digging a hole to bury his donkey. A neighbor came walking by and said" whatcha doin Ralph? He said I'm diggin a donkey hole. They talked a bit and he went on his way. A man from Georgia walked by and said " what are you doing Mr Mooney? Moon said I'm diggin a donkey hole. The man replied " Mr Mooney you know in the Bible they call them an ass! He talked a little more and went on his way. Yet another fellow walked by and asked " whatcha doin Moon, diggin a donkey hole? Moon said "Not accordin to the Scriptures"! regards, fred

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 2 Jul 2002 11:52 am

Sorry couldn't resist.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 2 Jul 2002 3:04 pm

Why do people always spell 'ass' with dollar signs?

could it be 'pimp' speak?

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 2 Jul 2002 5:47 pm

Well, if I'm Judas, can Carl be the ASS?

That stands for Ardent Steel Supporter, of course!

Pete Ballard · Post by **Pete Ballard** » 3 Jul 2002 5:08 am

"How can you hate the Drake? I love the Drake" - Jerry Seinfeld

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 3 Jul 2002 5:50 am

I just gotta say this, Carl, I love ya bro, and greatly respect your opinions, CURLS is my idol, but I'd be tickled pink if I could play as badly as Pete (HEHEHE)

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"Let's go STEEL something"
If it feels good, do it. If it feels COUNTRY, do it twice
jpp