Do you have your style?

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 29 Mar 2003 8:39 am

The other night, a guest group was performing at the supper club where I am a member of the staff band. A fellow steel player was in attendance, Ernest Cheramie. I went and sat with him and his family when we took a break. As the group was singing with prerecorded soundtracks, Ernest looked at me and said, "That is you, playing steel!" I looked at him and asked him how he knew. He said that he can tell me from anyone else he has heard. So, I guess I do have somewhat of an original style. By the way, that was a GREAT COMPLIMENT!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 29 Mar 2003 9:39 pm

I would like to see here on the forum,something like a library of different styles.I don`t know if Bob can do that but It would be very interesting to have each of us play a song or two.It would be a great colection of different styles and sounds.Like, lets say,Bobby Boo and then two of his songs,then George Joo and then couple of his songs.I think it is a cool idea,what do you guys think?

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 30 Mar 2003 2:56 am

Technique is a product of your limitations!
Style is a product of your influences!
And originality is undetected plagiarism!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 30 Mar 2003 4:59 am

Alvin,
You said a mouthfull. That pretty well sums it up -- especially the last part.

Damir,
Many of us have CDs and websites with soundbytes available for anyone to see. Most of those are listed in b0b's 'LINKS' if you click on that in the green area at the top of this page. It is extra effort for b0b to assemble what you ask for, but you can have it today if you just visit those links.

Mine are at my Home Page link below if you're interested and I have taken the time to see what others are up to. I encourage you to do the same.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 30 March 2003 at 07:21 AM.]

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 30 Mar 2003 7:53 am

I can just see Vince Gil hiring a steel player who does NOT play "Look at Us" note for note like John Hughey, or "When I Call Your Name" just like PF.

I don't mean to digress, but did Paul Franklin play on "When I Call Your Name"? I thought it was John Hughey. It sure sounds like John (speaking of styles)....

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 30 Mar 2003 8:01 am

I just answered my own question. www.allmusic.com credits Paul as the steeler on that album. Wow, he sounds like JH. And I think that must have been before Vince took JH on as his regular studio steeler.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 30 Mar 2003 8:19 am

oops[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 30 March 2003 at 08:24 AM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 30 Mar 2003 8:22 am

Mine are at my Home Page link below if you're interested and I have taken the time to see what others are up to. I encourage you to do the same.

Well said Larry; I also have visited many forumites links and sites and heard some very interesting stuff. Sometimes I'm remiss in that I don't necessarily let them know I've done so...

My examples are on my Live365 station and Last Train Home website, both listed in my signature below...

You get to determine for yourself if I have any discernable individual style

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"I AM Z-BOY!"

Zumsteel U12 "Loafer" 8&6 :: ZB Custom D-10

:: Fender Tube Amplification
www.voicenet.com/~vanallen/ :: vanallen@voicenet.com :: www.lasttrainhome.com::
My Live365 Broadcast

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 30 Mar 2003 9:41 am

Thanks Larry,will do that

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 30 Mar 2003 3:57 pm

"Technique is a product of your limitations!
Style is a product of your influences!
And originality is undetected plagiarism!"

Well Alvin I do like this.
But I will add : a great teacher of mine ( and a few other people) said ;
"technique is OVERCOMING your limitations".

In addition I was once told and took to heart ;
"Learn everything you can from any and all sources... then forget it.
What comes out will be your style."

There isn't a note that hasn't been played, but the timing / feel and the choice of notes is renewed daily by each individual.

So I am doing some tab book learning as a road map, but not slavishly learning each total composition. And doing a lot more of general exploring and listening the the instruments logic.
I expect to sound like me. Partly from isolation, partly by design.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 30 March 2003 at 03:58 PM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 30 Mar 2003 6:15 pm

There's two philosophies regarding this question... the Recreationist (play like the recording), and the Interpretive (do your own thing) approaches. Then there are blendings of the two that seem to apply to most experienced players, with emphasis on either one or the other.

As an example, at a particular gig my good friend Jim Loessberg will generally, IMHO, tend to be more Recreationist while I will be more Interpretive, though both of us say our own things in our own ways.

Actually, I would like to be able to play more like Jim, which is why I intently listen to every note he plays, though for some reason my discipline... or lack of it... is such that I fall into Interpretive almost by default.

I read an interesting quote in Guitar Player magazine years ago, in which the speaker said "When I was starting out, I learned every Chuck Berry song lick-for-lick, and I learned every BB King song lick-for-lick. It was when I started playing BB King licks on Chuck Berry songs that I started sounding like me."

I took that to heart.

A long time ago, I was taken to task back on the Prodigy Steel Forum... how many of y'all remember that one

(pre-AOL!)... for playing C6 on Johnny Bush songs after stating the signature licks on the trad. E9 neck. I replied that hey, that's what I like to do, and JB likes what I play. So whatever I do, like play Joaquin-style on Bush tunes, became part and parcel of my "style," as it were. And since I've had the job 11 years now, I guess it's suitable for the task.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 31 Mar 2003 12:07 am

I love this post, it gets at the essence of what "musicianship" really is. I've always admired the guys who had the drive and perserverance to exactly copy the work of the greats... I have neither. Perhaps I'm the product of my past, I joined a working band the day I got my first steel, and had to make up nearly everything I played from day one. I've certainly copied some licks, fills and solos over the years, but I always got the most mileage out of just fooling around and trying to play what I heard. It gets easier over time. I really try to play what's called for on sessions, if it's "classic country", "retro-billy", modern "Paul-isms" or whatever, but when I'm left to my own devices, I defintely have a style, (for better or worse). In my case, I was always driven by the desire to play what I hear as "song-serving"- in some cases it's the classic intro-turnaround-sparse fills fomula, in others, I play as a second guitar or keyboard, comping a rhythm part all through a song. To me it's not an apples or oranges kind of thing- I've marveled at the intricate nuances of phrasing copied exactly by some players, and been equally blown away by the intense originality of others. There's ample room for both approaches, true beauty for the listener... the questions being, is it appropriate, is it musical, is it "right for the song"- all decisions made in the moment, under the gun, and inter-reacting with the other musicians on a session or on stage. I've had some moments that totally amazed me- and some that were total crap. Striving toward more of the former is what keeps me loving my playing life.

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C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com

My Band: www.sugarlandmusic.com

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 31 Mar 2003 1:51 am

i too find this post most rewarding
i won't add my 2 cents cause there's some heavy $$$ on the table already
(i'm sure i got my style now wether it's any good is another matter)

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Steel what?

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 31 Mar 2003 7:48 am

I probabley don't play the same song the same way twice...and can't remember the licks I used on the song that I just played..So I guess that I don't have a style..and because I can't play That Song..Like That player..is why I don't get calls to play with any one anymore..or...because I don't or can't "play It Right"...or maybe can't play at all!! Does that mean that my what I do is NO Style at all?...Or is it that I have a bad attittude.....and I play the way I interpit
it....or the things that I do is the way that I want to do it...If I hear a song ,or phrase,or what ever...why can't I play it the way that I feel it or hear it..rather.than the way that TW,PF,BE,BC,LG,JH,HR,or whoever heard it or playit. Is JH going to play like or copy PF just because PF is playing more sessions right now..and it is more politicaly correct to play like PF rather than like himself?..Maybe my pick or palm blocking is different than...WM's or my fingers are a little slower moving than HW..does that mean that I don't have a style ..or just can't play at all? Who is to say witch is the best or only way to play!..What if TE never tried to invet that recording device in the Dark???
GV[This message was edited by Bob Hayes on 31 March 2003 at 08:02 AM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 31 Mar 2003 5:43 pm

I`m too lazy to copy anything.I couldn`t copy a chart on the copy machine I guess.But I play with the heart.If the band is good and there is a music on stage (no noise and bunch overplaying) I have the best time in my life.Every time.I can play a simple single note and just feel the music.Thats what I love.If that sounds like someone else I don`t know,but I hope not.Some great playing on this post here.Thanks guys.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 6 Apr 2003 11:38 am

Hey Robert,I got your tape.There is some great picking on it.I keep it in my car stereo.That HWP Mullen sounds great too.Take care buddy.
Sincerely,Damir

Dan Dowd · Post by **Dan Dowd** » 21 Apr 2003 3:49 pm

I just did a search on google.com for chaulker and was surprised at the info there on him. Also found a album demo that has him playing on it. There were some great songs on .http://prairiedustrecords.com/artist.htm

I should have put this under Curly Chaulker but I goofed.[This message was edited by Dan Dowd on 21 April 2003 at 04:52 PM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 21 Apr 2003 4:07 pm

I wear my influences on my sleeve and they co-exist with my own style/interpretation/improvation.
Ricky

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 21 Apr 2003 6:39 pm

I'm a long time player (20Yrs) playing top 40 country on E9. I certainly agree with darn near everything so far. Great stimulating conversation. Been playing C6 seriously for about 2 years now and played my first gig last Sat. Played mostly easy jazz,blues oriented stuff on C6 and a few E9. Just the guitar player me and Band in a box. What a rush that was!
Taking a jazz improvisation class at the local college so hopefully my own style will emerge. At the Texas convention this year I made it a point to ask about everyone I could their approach to learning steel,especially C6 tuning. My teacher is a real advocate of scale/chord relationships and it seemed that most steel players I talked to are more Chord/scale oriented.(does that make sense).It seems like I am literally taking my playing apart and putting it back together again. I had heard that Herb Steiner was really into teaching scales to students but unfortunately was not able to chat with him there. I wish I had some of the computer learning aids they have now "back then". I'm having a GREAT time learning "music" on my steel. I think I will wind up sounding just like me! : )

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 21 Apr 2003 7:21 pm

when bradshaw (an expert) mislabelled herbie wallace as emmons i was alerted to a primary problem that will cause steel to follow the same fads associated with accordions and lady in spain.

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 21 Apr 2003 8:05 pm

Alvin really nailed it! My own style is the misinterpretation of the original ideas of the greats!

Ricky Littleton · Post by **Ricky Littleton** » 22 Apr 2003 2:44 am

I've looked at this thread so many times and wanted to chime in, but I couldn't figure out what I wanted to say. So here's what I decided, so hang on!

When I listen to any recording of my playing (I do for educations sake and to troubleshoot any playing problems), I can hear some of my influences mainly because I really want to hear them. I hold my favorite influences ( E, Hughey, Day, Moon, Rugg, Green...) in very high regard as I imagine everyone does. Sometimes, though I overlook what I can do by over-striving to do it the way I heard so-and-so do it. When I do that, I see and understand I only shortchange myself and my individuality. I am making a more concerted effort to listen for ME in my practice tracks and I am starting to hear the subtleties that define me as a player. Sometimes when reviewing a playback, I'll ask myself, "where'd that come from?" Then I'll go back and try to find it again on the guitar (it's that auto-pilot thing that happens to all of us). When that happens, I feel that my playing is becoming more and more me and the influences are the "spice" that adds to the overall mix. I want my playing to be unique and I strive for that.

My style? Yeah, I have some. May not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's becoming more and more me with every practice and gig.

My $0.02 worth from Ascension Island

Ricky

p.s. - I forgot to mention Ricky Davis. His stuff on the Linda Lay CD is awesome! Hat's off to you , dude!

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd
Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah

[This message was edited by Ricky Littleton on 22 April 2003 at 03:45 AM.]

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 22 Apr 2003 10:53 pm

I think you should try to play like anyone you wish, if you want to, because you won't be 100% successful anyway, and that's what makes you different, whether you want to be or not! Sooner or later you're going to slip up, and they will say, oh no that's not him, that's someone else! Who is that person? Don't ask me! How would I know?

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 22 Apr 2003 11:00 pm

I think you should try to play like anyone you wish, if you want to, because you won't be 100% successful anyway, and that's what makes you different, whether you want to be or not! Sooner or later you're going to slip up, and they will say: "Oh no, that's not him, that's someone else! Who is that person? Don't ask me! How should I know?"

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 22 Apr 2003 11:04 pm

I think you should try to play like anyone you wish, if you want to, because you won't be 100% successful anyway, and that's what makes you different, whether you want to be or not! Sooner or later you're going to slip up, and they will say: "Oh no, that's not him, that's someone else! Who is that person? Don't ask me! How should I know?"

http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels