Boss Tone to again be manufactured.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 2 Jan 2003 10:12 am

Ken, do any of these sound like a buzz saw hitting a rusty nail? I have also heard some good playing that sounded exactly like a wheel bearing going out on a train car. Ken,maybe those are the sounds we need to search for.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 2 Jan 2003 10:23 am

Unfortunately that is what a lot of them sound like to me! I certainly do not think we need to manufacture any more things that sound like that. I like sustain and a smooth distortion, like the old Carlos Santana sounds of years gone by. A violin singing quality without the nasty edge, I guess is what I am trying to say. Well, I found another old (1978) MXR Distortion + to buy. Maybe it will not be what I thought it was, but here we go again! It is this relentless pursuit of tone that keeps guys manufacturing new products for us.
On another note, I just sold a Hilton Digital Sustainer for a friend of mine. The new owner was delighted to finally get a nice sound out of his Shobud and Session 400! You would have to pry mine out of my cold dead hands to get it from me!!!!
Keith, if you can do something with the Shobud Bosstone like you did with the Digital Sustainer you will have another winner on your hands!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 2 Jan 2003 11:04 am

Rusty nail, ha, ha!!!Keith, don't remind me of that sound, it makes me CRAZZZZZZZy!!!!!

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 2 Jan 2003 11:13 am

One thing I guess I don't understand...
Why would a steel player want to sound like a fiddle player?..., especially in the case when there is already a fiddle player in the band?

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 2 Jan 2003 1:05 pm

As many people as have responded to this make me think there is need here for something new or at least more workable. I think clean players tend to seek out their overdriven sounds with pedals or effects processors. A lot of blues players and rockers are using tube overdrive. We can't play at those volumes and really can't use an amp that serves steel and guitar with those kind of breakup characteristics. The relentless pursuit of one amp for all things! I think we tend to use the powerful and clean amp with an efficient speaker, but desire to have the tone for guitar or steel on occassion that resembles the wonderful overdriven tone of a tube amp with a cheap inefficient speaker (ala Jensen). There does not seem to be a one-size fits all solution. There may be room for new invention here!
I must confess, I just read the articles I showed links to above. They were quite an eye opener about the different effects that have beend built and how they work. I realize now how little I knew about this subject! I have basically always been a clean sound player and lately have become more intereseted in a more musical overdriven sound. This is new territory for me, I must confess. So please don't put a lot salt in my opinions on this subject!!!

So much to learn and so little to work with![This message was edited by Ken Fox on 02 January 2003 at 01:57 PM.][This message was edited by Ken Fox on 03 January 2003 at 08:56 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 2 Jan 2003 11:42 pm

I think they sound like crap. Boosting a signal and then clipping it with a diode is not the way to make a musical tone...

Generally, Bobby, I am inclined to agree. Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but it is my general observation that...the more "interested" a player is in distortion or overdrive, the less skill he seems to possess. While the are a very few players that know "how and when" to use such an effect, there seems to be an over abundance that want to substitute effects for talent and practice.

It would be nice if we could sound like Carlos Santana at will, but that "sound" don't come in a box.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 3 Jan 2003 8:43 am

I had a session on lap steel recently where the client wanted a Lindley-type sound. I dutifully went down to the local music store and found a used Dunlop Real Tube, which I purchased. Very controlled, warm distortion.

What we used on the session, though, was just my Rick Model B played through my trusty blackface Princeton Reverb, turned up to 10 (in the isolation room, of course.) THAT was the best distortion of all.

The Real Tube sounds and is great but I don't use it at gigs because it's just one more thing to haul around. And I don't use it at home because who needs distortion there. So, uh... I guess I don't use it.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
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Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 3 Jan 2003 4:40 pm

Years ago when I was playing the club circuit with John Berry he gave me his original Ibanez Tube Screamer. It had a wonderful smooth overdrive, we were doing some Jackson Brown covers and I could get an almost spot on Lindley tone- I wish John had never taken that thing back! I've tried the reissues and they just don't seem to have the same warmth and character- I guess there is something to the "vintage mystique" factor but I can't see dropping $300 bucks for a beat up TS. That one of John's totally put my bosstone to shame. I've tried a number of the modern boutique pedals all claiming to nail or one-up the tubescreamer sound. Close but no cigar.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 3 Jan 2003 4:45 pm

Is anyone aware that a BOSSTONE can be used with harmony if you use a Stereo volume pedal (that is one with two volume pots) If you run a (Y) from your steel output jack, you can plug one cord directly from the (Y) to the input of one vol. pedal pot and that pot out to your DRY amp. Then plug the BOSSTONE into the remaining end of the (Y), and the output from the BOSSTONE to the input jack of the 2dn. vol.pot, and that pot output to your 2nd. amp. Now when you engage the BOSSTONE, the fuzz will only go to one amp and the dry amp will blend with the distorted amp and you can actually play the distortion in harmony and have a much ("cleaner") distortion, if you will! Sincerely; "Big John" Bechtel, Nashville, TN. KeoniNui@webtv.net http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/doc

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Jan 2003 5:21 pm

For many years I stacked my Boogie on top of my Webb. The tube distortion of the Boogie blended well with the big, warm low end of the Webb.

The most musical distortion comes from power tubes, but it's hard to push an amp that far and still be in the same room. Second best is overdriven preamp tubes like the 12AX7. This is where I get most of the distortion that I use. The wave flattens softly and the overtones are nice.

Stomp boxes with tubes come in third. They typically use a wall wart and can't get the voltage high enough to really do the trick. At the bottom of the barrel is the solid state stomp boxes and, yes, the BossTone. I've never plugged into a solid state distortion device that gave me the warm fuzzies (pun intended!

). They just don't feel very musical to me.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Jan 2003 5:44 pm

I just found some nice excerpts of Dan Tyack at the THD web site. Listen to this mp3: http://www.thdelectronics.com/audio/TyackLive4.mp3 for example. That's what I call "musical distortion". You can't get anywhere close to that with a BossTone.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 3 Jan 2003 8:13 pm

My son is 18 and my daughter is 20, what most of the young people listen to never has a guitar that doesn't have distortion. I won't get into the debate that some use distortion to hide their playing ability, but at times I do have my suspicions. Distortion is used so much in young people's music a straight clean guitar is weird sounding to them. My son heard me experimenting with a distortion unit on my steel recently and commented, "Now you are getting somewhere!"
The distortion sounded like the popular stuff he listens to on the radio. A pure clean steel playing the Buddy Emmons, "A Different Kind Of Flower" intro isn't like the distortion the young people hear on MTV.
Personally, I like the band AC/DC, but I prefer listening to Buddy Emmons playing, "A Different Kind Of Flower". I used to use my Boss Tone when I was playing on the road as a quick means of trying to fit my steel into a rock song that never had a steel to begin with. To be honest I never liked doing that. I got my best distortion by doing something similar to what Bobby suggested. I had a very small watt Crate solid state amp with an 10 inch blown speaker. I would set that on top of my Nashville 400. The distortion of the 10 inch speaker run wide open mixed very well with the clear signal of the Nashville 400. I am not convinced that one "must" use tubes to get great distortion. I have heard people using the harsh Boss Tone and sound great. There is a time and place for everything. There are probably more time and places for less harsh distortion mixed with a clean signal. Just my opinions. [This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 03 January 2003 at 08:15 PM.]

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 6 Jan 2003 9:17 am

Keith Hilton lumped in the Fuzz Face with the "diode clipping" distortion boxes. The Fuzz Face actually gets its distortion from overdriving two germanium transistor stages. There are no clipping diodes in the circuit, by my recollection. I had one for many years.

Greg Derksen · Post by **Greg Derksen** » 6 Jan 2003 9:46 am

Three pedals that sound quite good even for a tube purist, Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive,like
an old tube screamer but better, Barber
Electronics ,Direct Drive, and Reverend is
making one called the Drive Train II, another
tube screamer type pedal, all three are full
bypass, which means when not in use but in the chain they won't steal tone, they are warm and clear, and not too pricey.
The Boss Tone is but an annoying bit of white noise in comparison, absolutley fantastic for 70's vibe however. fuuzzyy
I might also add, just cause a pedal has got a tube in it doesn't mean its better sounding
than a properly designed solid state design,
Its much like studio gear, good quality transister will kill cheap tube wannabe pre-amps and compressors, Greg

Steve Alonzo Walker · Post by **Steve Alonzo Walker** » 6 Jan 2003 2:42 pm

Does anyone have a schematic for the Bosstone? I'd like to get a copy if so.Thanks! papasteel@charter.net

David Decker · Post by **David Decker** » 6 Jan 2003 2:46 pm

Steve I just sent you a schematic of the Boss Tone from Jordan.

Emmons D-10, Kline U-12, Evans Fet 500 LV